Pre flop check up posts. - Page 114 - Small Stakes Poker Forum

20/40 half kill. The killer is on the button.

TAG CO opens, the button calls, folded to me in the BB. I have J9o. In a normal raise situation this is an easy call. Does the kill change things much now that I have to call an additional 20 to see the flop or is this still an easy call?

I would fold.

Quote

08-22-2022 , 04:32 PM

#2827

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

It’s just math.

Proceeds to do the math incorrectly, lol. Just taking a cheap shot. I'd call.

Quote

08-22-2022 , 05:59 PM

#2828

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,551

3 bets raiser, 3 bets killer, 1 bet bb = 7 bets

2 bets to call 3.5/1

I think it’s close. Depends on raiser for me

Quote

08-23-2022 , 09:22 AM

#2829

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 606

Try again!

Quote

08-23-2022 , 10:50 AM

#2830

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,551

Lol. Ok let’s assume 20/40 so 30/60 with half kill.

Kill is on button and posts 30, co opens to 60, button calls the additional 30.

So pot is now 60+60+20 (our big blind) = 140

It’s 40 to call. 140/40=3.5

Quote

08-23-2022 , 02:46 PM

#2831

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 606

I'm just giving you a hard time because you keep forgetting the small blind.

Quote

08-23-2022 , 07:51 PM

#2832

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,551

I never count the small blind in 1/2 because of rake. It’s a non factor.

Quote

08-23-2022 , 10:48 PM

#2833

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

It’s just math. You are getting 3.5 to 1. So if you normally call J9 getting that price, then call, the kill is irrelevant. The only catch should be the killer’s range should be pretty trashy since he did not 3 bet

+1

I'm 3 betting BB non 0% if CO was Ninefingershuffle since no gamble no future

OT: Would love BB that folds J9o in kill pot when kill called Button. I'm calling 100% in BB with J9o ainec imo

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08-23-2022 , 11:29 PM

#2834

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,901

How can it not even be close when j8o is a clear fold?

Quote

08-24-2022 , 11:27 AM

#2835

hardinthepaint

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 606

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle

I never count the small blind in 1/2 because of rake. It’s a non factor.

I'm probably being pedantic at this point, but for people that play in time games, it's not a non-factor. Especially where we are talking about hands that are on the margins, the extra half-bet actually matters. I agree that in raked games, rounding down the small blind is an easy way to account for the rake, and I'd do the same.

Quote

08-24-2022 , 07:25 PM

#2836

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

How can it not even be close when j8o is a clear fold?

Playability and Math.

Simple Hot/Cold EV calculator of J8o vs CO TAG range & BTN cold call range (ex: Equilab / Stove / HoldemLab / Solver)

Quote

08-24-2022 , 07:27 PM

#2837

maka2184

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,537

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardinthepaint

+1

OT: Don't think applies to Ninefingershuffle / expert LAGTAG pros that win min 2BB/100 in any live LHE poker game

Quote

09-23-2022 , 10:23 AM

#2838

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,798

8 handed 20/40

UTG is a bad reg. Has a tight opening range probably around top 10%. The two players behind me are bad regs who will take three two the face with suited connectors and small pairs etc. but will mostly be folding.

I am in the HJ. How high of a pocket pair would you need to three bet?

Quote

09-23-2022 , 10:34 AM

#2839

mongidig

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5,798

8 handed 20/40.

UTG limps, TAG UTG + 1 raises, LJ calls, very agro on the button three bets, Maniac in the SB caps, folded to me in the BB with

22's
AQo
JTs

Quote

09-23-2022 , 03:55 PM

#2840

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,901

I call all like a degen. I’m least excited about AQ.

Quote

09-23-2022 , 11:11 PM

#2841

Crispix

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 178

22- fold
AQo- very dependent. Probably fold readless.
JTs- I play.

Quote

09-24-2022 , 01:29 AM

#2842

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,901

Assuming all call (a fine assumption I feel) aren’t we getting direct odds to set mine with the bb overlay and the fact that position hardly matters in this spot?

Quote

09-24-2022 , 09:15 AM

#2843

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,551

88/99

Quote

09-24-2022 , 08:14 PM

#2844

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,513

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Quote

09-24-2022 , 08:15 PM

#2845

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,513

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

8 handed 20/40.

UTG limps, TAG UTG + 1 raises, LJ calls, very agro on the button three bets, Maniac in the SB caps, folded to me in the BB with

22's
AQo
JTs

call all 3

maybe 22 is questionable, but i would tilt if i would have flopped a set so its negative meta EV IMO.

sounds like a good game.

Quote

09-24-2022 , 08:17 PM

#2846

Grease

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by NittyOldMan1

call all 3

Same. JTs>22>AQo IMO, but that’s just based off how likely I think I am to misplay them PF OOP.

Quote

09-24-2022 , 08:19 PM

#2847

Grease

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

Depends a bit on how showdown bound UTG is but I would say 99. I would potentially go down to 77 if he’s fit or fold nit postflop, but 99 is my default.

Quote

09-24-2022 , 08:20 PM

#2848

NittyOldMan1

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,513

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispix

22- fold
AQo- very dependent. Probably fold readless.
JTs- I play.

against a very aggro 3 better and maniac capper folding AQo seems like a mistake. granted not a huge one.

Quote

09-25-2022 , 01:49 AM

#2849

checkraisdraw

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 2,901

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongidig

10% isn’t particularly tight from utg, is it?

Quote

09-25-2022 , 03:07 AM

#2850

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 21,101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grease

JTs>22>AQo IMO, but that’s just based off how likely I think I am to misplay them PF OOP.

In general I agree on this order of preference as well, but I'd definitely fold AQo. Playing 22 to set mine really depends on what how the table generally plays post-flop. If there is going to be crazy action then it may be worth a call. If there is generally just one or two bets per street then I don't like 22 much, but I like JTs better because it may be cheaper to hit your draws.

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