Not being able to win your opponent's stack, while also not being at risk of losing your own requires a lot of adjustments actually.

This. I recently played a couple k hands of NL. I seem to be unable to not ship with TPTK so yeah... that didn't work out so well. Limit has the same decisions (only for smaller amounts of money and much more frequently).

yeah i was going thru my hh's and i was at a few tables where i didn't even win a single hand after 200 or so hands so i think part was downswinging but also i seemed to be getting into some 3bet wars that never work in limit but work a lot of the time in nl...bluffing is def not as effective also you win at nlhe by not going to showdown, i didn't see many hands i won without showdown in limit tho...

1. don't bluff as often obv but does bluffing work at all in limit? if you can't win with the worst hand then what is your edge in limit? folding correctly on the river even tho you have massive pot odds?

Bluffing has it's spot but afaik, it's nowhere near as prevalent as in NL. Semi-bluffing (don't go crazy with it) is going to work better (depending on the limit).

A good chunk of limit is hand-reading, thin value-betting, and pot odds/outs evaluation.

I'm curious as to what people's SD's are for the 1/2, 2/4, and 3/6 limit games online. I know it depends on what style you play, but I'd like to get some numbers since I don't have a large enough sample size on my own. If you want to include your x/x/x stats or just in general how aggressive you play, that would help me out also.

Important: These are for full ring games, NOT 6-max.

I'm not at a computer with a real DB on it, but mine is around 14. Your stats have less to do with this than you think. Your WTSD could be a bigger factor than the others. SD is really impacted by pot size, making table conditions important. The "it depends on the style you play" thing is an artifact of live players who had more lore to rely on than numbers in their stats. The nits justified their play by saying "reduces variance". They picked some spots to reduce WR while saying it reduced variance... in turn they drove RoR through the roof.

16.4bb/100 hands for 2/4 2,500 hands (lose)
16.6bb/100 hands for 1/5 54,000 hands - (lose)
16.3bb/100 hands for .5/1 20,000 hands - (lose)
17.1bb/100 hands for .25/.5 25,000 hands (win)

Live 3/6 and 6/12 my stdev is around 14bb/hr.

It would be interesting to see if a winning player has lower stdev.

My WTSD is around 36% for all limits and W$WSD is around 50% yet I win at .25 and lose higher with the same %. I guess it depends on which hands you win.

104,000 hands and my stats look almost the same except bb/100. I'm in a rut and play 2/4-.05/.10 the same way.

It's certainly not a total artifact, although people might certainly overestimate the effect of style of play.

Here's a sample from my database:

Pokerstars .50/1, 9-10 players only
April 2010: 10k hands, stats 20/11, SD = 17.1 BB/100
May 2010: 15k hands, stats 19/11, SD = 15.3 BB/100
June 2010: 13k hands, stats 18/12, SD = 15.5 BB/100
July 2010: 3k hands, stats 19/14, SD = 16.2 BB/100

It's possible the game has evolved over that time period but I think there's a non-zero effect from my play style.

live 3/6 = 15.2 BB/hr
live 6/12 = 13.5 BB/hr

For this year, in 346,000 FRLHE hands, my went to SD is 38.35 and my Won at SD is 50.36. I have played from .50/1 up to 30/60, with the great bulk of my play at 5/10, 3/6, 2/4 and 1/2. I'm almost exactly a breakeven player, winning .01 BB/100. My went to SD is too high of course.

honestly, it seems like you're positing some basic rules above and in general they may or may not be correct but either way don't hold to them stringently even if you believe they work

like for instance against a certain player I will bet/raise/cap a combo, against others I will c/r-call, **** like that etc. then multiway pots are a whole other monster, totally depends on position and who else is in the pot. combos are usually good for a ****load of raising esp multiway on the flop (purely given equity if nothing else) but then turn decisions are totally dependent on opponent/position/board texture

meh I wouldn't rely too much on wtsd number, some players at these limits (yes, FR) sd well over 40 and turn profit well above RB

guilty

tbh, if you play in tight games and iso-raise a lot, you're in a ton of HU pots just like a 6m game. wtsd is dependent on a lot of things around table conditions and you're playing style.

also, I hate to fold

It starts with playing in spots where exactly two of you have a hand on the flop. If 5 people see the flop and get to have 5-card hands and then you get HU, the dynamic is a bit different.

I have worries here with subtle tilt. It is one thing to make a thin calldown b/c the board was wet and you beat every draw. It is another thing to get "I want to see wtf he had" tilt. You make a couple of expert calls and get positive feedback setting you up for potentially bad actions. You can seduce yourself into bad spots. You need to be making these plays because his range is such that it is profitable.

After playing with OTR15 in Vegas, I suspect this is an area where he is a ton better than me. Reading ranges here and making the right decision for a light calldown is a place where I don't always make the correct decision. For new players reading this thread, calling down A, K, or Q high against players who must always have a pair or better can become a huge leak.

A quick question Im going to cross-post in live low-stakes no limit as well regarding a question between game sizes...

Which of these games would be bigger, and by roughly how much...

2/3 NL with a min BI of 50 and a max of 200
5/5 NL with a min of 200 and a max of 500
10/20 NL with a min of 2000 max 5000
2/3 PLO with a min of 200 and a max of 500
5/5 PLO with a 400 min and uncapped BI
5/10 PLO 500 min uncapped max BI
10/20 Limit Hold Em with a small bet of 10, a big bet of 20 and no kills, straddles etc...
5/10 LHE with no straddles and kills

Most importantly though, the 10/20 LHE vs the 2/3 NL

Cheers

Ash

Seattle-area, 10/20 is like 500NL (maybe slightly smaller if we had it), mostly thinking in terms of what people buy-in for and the player pool.

Closing this for editing, archiving, and then possibly creation of a new one.

Stickying it for easier access during this next phase.