first orbit at 6/12, no reads

hero is dealt KK in early-middle position, hero raises, all fold to the blinds who both call.

flop (3 BB) 89T
sb checks, bb checks, hero bets, sb raises, bb calls two cold, hero 3-bets, sb calls, bb calls
turn (7.5 BB) 8
sb bets, bb calls, hero calls
river (10.5 BB) J
sb bets, bb folds, hero calls

thoughts on all streets appreciated

I'd probably raise/fold the turn. He could still be doing this with top pair he doesn't want checked through/know what to do with or some combo draw and he won't be 3betting without a hand that we're drawing between 2-4 outs (where 2 would be very dirty). So I'd take advantage of the passive nature of live players who won't 3bet without the stonecold nuts. It's close either way though, our equity can't be that good against the donk.

On the river I feel like this is a fold. SB has shown a ton of strength throughout the hand, and a card that completed a ton of draws which he potentially had came in. He also bet that river into 2 people one of whom looked like was on a draw. He'd also probably check a hand like JT most of the time on the river... so I don't think we can profitably call in this spot.

nice hand.

nice hand

i think raisefolding the turn would be somewhere between bad and abysmal.

even if we're 100% sure we're behind (which we're not and can never be), we can still see the river for half that number of bets by just calling the turn, trying to hit our 2+ outer

(probably it's a bit more than 2, right, if an 8 is sometimes somewhat of an out? plus when we spike we get 2+ bets in on the river always so there's some okay implied odds action going on),

and deciding to show down by calling again on the river will cost us the same as the turn raise, while giving us information when beat, and every now and then having the best hand and picking him off. also, sometimes, he checks a better hand to us on the river and we can show down more cheaply.

i am a big fan of getting to showdown in big pots especially one bet at a time closing the action.

If your read is that you're ahead on the flop when SB check-raises, I like just calling. That lets you raise on the turn when you have a much bigger edge if a safe card comes off, and lets you save money if the turn is something really terrible.

In the type of game you are playing, that is one of the worst non-ace boards possible. Check the flop intending to bet a safe turn and call down with meh turn cards, like the 8s.

+1

You have overpair on a drawy board. Opponents will typically put you on likely AK-AJ, so they bet. On the flop you are likely ahead, turn and river are bad cards, but I think you probably win >10%. River fold would be OK too, I think.

Honestly if this exact situation came up live I'd probably play it the same way as the OP. But the more I see this live the more I feel like he's just donking some crappy top pair. The guy stuck in between is clearly just padding the pot. We're also not going to get exploited by this line because it doesn't come up that often.. so I don't think it's quite as bad as you say.

It really just boils down to what hands you think an unknown is donkinghere. He may be doing this with a hand like 76 and all 8s, as well as hands like J9/JT/AT/whatever. People always seem to think you're trying to make some bogus free card play so they stop and go like crazy.

I do agree that perhaps I'm overlooking a bit of value in getting some bets in on a K river, but how much value does that really give us? Besides I really don't think we're getting 3bet on this turn very much, and I'd love to charge the guy who's drawing another bet if we believe our hand to be good a lot of the time.

As played is no one giving any consideration to folding this river? the pot is kinda big, but how many combos of hands do we actually beat? That card is gross.

i probably wouldn't 3bet the flop 100%(or even necessarily a majority of the time) in a live game on that kind of board. wait for a safe turn and either raise or call or bet, depending on what card it is and what the other players do. it sort of depends on the propensity of the other players to c/r, too. the more c/r-happy they are the more i DO 3bet right away.

it's still a nh as played fwiw.

As has been said, SB probably thinks you have a AK like hand and might check raise with any piece of the board, a small pocket pair or a draw. Given that you don't have any reads, I would just call down from the flop check raise. I think your hand will be good often enough to justify a call down.

cant think of what i would change here really

i would play it exactly as you had. the last scare card shouldn't deter you after the expected river bet.

since when did the oaks 6/12 become such a thinking game? from what i remember/experienced, it's basically a less fishy version of 3/6 with at least 4-5 seeing the flop with complete disregard for a PFR. you should move up to the 15 and 30 if you can.

college student, too poor for 15/30 and lhe is not my best game

SB's thinking:
PF: Maybe BB will call
Flop: Maybe he has an overpair
Turn: Maybe he has AK
River: Maybe I have a straight

i agree i always do best against players who play better than me and respect my raises