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Neato spot (4/8)confused the heck out of me

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03-26-2015 , 05:26 PM

Bigpants

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 592

full table. Larger guy just sat down so I'm a vacuum against him. Table views me as a winning nit.

Hero has approx $600 in front of him now.

Large guy is utg +1 who I open limps. All folds to me in CO who makes it 2 bets to go with JTo

Blinds fold and large guy calls.

Flip comes down

AcTh5c

Big guy checks

I bet, big guy calls

Turn. 2h. - Big guy leads and now hero is confused.

Fold...raise?...call?

Quote

03-26-2015 , 07:31 PM

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,026

I'd call turn and probably call down. I would expect too loose fairly often but sometimes he will be bluffing and sometimes we will suck out on a better hand.

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03-26-2015 , 08:55 PM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

This smacks of ace rag, perhaps with a heart draw now, or maybe with two pair now. Or 43.

Definitely not anything worse. If you're viewed as a "winning nit" - which if you're raising JTo in a 4/8 game will not last long even if currently true - he puts you on a big ace and is afraid to get outkicked. He doesn't want to get 3-bet but can't stand passively calling down.

I'd fold pre, too.

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03-26-2015 , 09:00 PM

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigpants

Larger guy just sat down so I'm a vacuum against him.

What does this mean?

Quote

03-26-2015 , 09:27 PM

Bigpants

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 592

With only one player in the hand? Could you explain this? In NL this is a standard raise.

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03-26-2015 , 09:27 PM

Man of Means

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,223

You're a vacuum to him, which means he thinks you suck. But everyone else knows better.

Sometimes it's a heart draw that developed. I'd call the turn, and fold some rivers.

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03-26-2015 , 09:28 PM

Bigpants

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 592

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Calli ***

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03-26-2015 , 11:04 PM

Bigpants

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 592

Can anyone explain why to fold JTo in the cutoff?

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03-27-2015 , 12:10 AM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigpants

Can anyone explain why to fold JTo in the cutoff?

Because unlike NL, the limper is never folding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigpants

Calli ***

What does this mean?

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03-27-2015 , 12:25 AM

#10

Bigpants

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 592

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Because unlike NL, the limper is never folding.

What does this mean?

Your name is callipygian ... Calli shortened.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using 2+2 Forums

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03-27-2015 , 09:02 AM

#11

Bob148

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Because unlike NL, the limper is never folding.

I have seen people limp and fold for one bet, but this happens <1% of the time in my experience.

I agree. Fold preflop.

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03-27-2015 , 11:13 AM

#12

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

Yeah folding pre is probably correct. On the hand you're almost certainly beat

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03-27-2015 , 12:11 PM

#13

Captain R

Wot

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,574

I raise this pre.

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03-27-2015 , 12:18 PM

#14

Man of Means

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,223

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain R

I raise this pre.

I also do but it's probably the worst unsuited hand I raise here, so I'm willing to agree to disagree. To those who fold, what's the bottom of your raising range? And does the 4/8 rake-trap stakes influence your decision, or is it just too weak of a hand?

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03-27-2015 , 02:49 PM

#15

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigpants

Your name is callipygian ... Calli shortened.

You're giving me a three star rating, or tried to call me something that got censored?

Quote

03-27-2015 , 02:52 PM

#16

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man of Means

To those who fold, what's the bottom of your raising range? And does the 4/8 rake-trap stakes influence your decision, or is it just too weak of a hand?

Just too weak of a hand and a lot of 4/8 limpers have strongish limping ranges because they're too passive to raise.

I'd raise JTo OTB against an opponent aggressive enough to raise AJo/ATs/KJs. Because that weakens their range a lot.

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03-28-2015 , 10:40 AM

#17

mongidig

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

This makes a lot of sense.

I would still raise it from the CO if the conditions were right (tight button, blinds...the limper had a weak range and played predictably post, our image is good, etc).

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03-28-2015 , 03:49 PM

#18

jesse8888

Yes, you barred

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 16,685

I mean if the guy's limping range is reasonable you're just in trouble a lot. There are players against whom folding is a disaster and others against whom raising is jokering the money

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03-31-2015 , 10:13 PM

#19

DougL

Too helpful for this post

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 21,810

If you think he's limping 60% of his hands in that spot, JTo has you giggling happy. If he's a Bellagio 20/40 reg, he's limping exactly hands he should have raised.

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04-01-2015 , 12:50 PM

#20

ZOMG_RIGGED!

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Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 17,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Villian is new to the table so he doesn't view hero as anything. I'd call him down but not be happy about it. You probably lose but this seems a reasonable spot to find out he's limping and now you'll have a read on what he limps and donks so you can adjust and play better against him later

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04-01-2015 , 12:57 PM

#21

Jon_locke

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 4,180

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

This smacks of ace rag...Or 43.

I'd fold pre, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

a lot of 4/8 limpers have strongish limping ranges because they're too passive to raise.
.

Ummm? We must use the word strongish differently.

Quote

04-01-2015 , 06:17 PM

#22

phunkphish

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,902

Folding a ten here would be very exploitable (We'd be folding too many hands given the price of a call down). Exploitable folds are for the times we have a read on villain. I never feel bad when I don't make a proper exploitable fold.

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04-02-2015 , 02:12 AM

#23

rodeo

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,305

raise pre is fine. call turn. call river. lose the hand. take a note.

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04-02-2015 , 07:52 PM

#24

lawdude

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man of Means

My view is exactly the same. I raise this pre-, but any time someone's arguing over the very bottom of my raising range in a particular spot, I totally won't argue with someone who says fold it.

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04-05-2015 , 05:16 PM

#25

synth_floyd

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,074

I tend to play tight against unknowns. Unknowns usually don't bluff against other unknowns, also the fact that players tend to not play light in 4/8 games in general. If I have mid-pair and get donked on the turn, I fold.

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