I had to make this post as ******ed as it might going to be.

I have started playing LHE in BM usually 5/10 or 10/20 they were very soft and I was winning easily I had no experience for LH what so ever, I read one internet site by typing in: LIMIT HOLD'EM in google read it and felt prepared for this new environment. I didn't even read about handprotection and limit and have no idea how it works and just assumed that I won't protect any mediocre hand after the flop. I started playing high cards rather than low pairs just by assuming it was more correct. and so on... how ever at some point I could not stand the table talking anymore and the ipod did not help either and additionally the way bothered me + I could not stand a losing session against this incredible weak players. So I put some money online and now play 0.5/1 online.

now after 16k hands,playing 20/9.5 my graph looks like this

I'm just showing that and won't bore you with any more stats.

these terrible downswings are really getting to me I just keep getting coolered for 140BBs e.g I could never have supported that in live poker and never were even close to do that bad.

Considering that I would have to play 22 daysand nights or 500+ hours straight live to get that kind of hand sample, it really comes down to: The competition is much better and I play a little worse.

I was completely helpless in these downswings, so I can't blame myself there.

One thing that really bothers me is that I can't go for the thin value bet anymore at anytime. I'm always happy if my TT on a 562 8 board is check called and I'm dead 70% of the times when one of my opponent raises once in the hand. Not to mention any board with an overcard. Then I also begun to start to check/call the river with anything of that calibre to save the bet, something I'd never have dreamed of before.
But at the same time there is not any non-showdown money to be made. My red line goes down slowly but gradually and I have witnessed no player that has won some pots with 3betting alot and getting others players to fold.

So in fact what I see is: People playing 15-22/5-10style but calling down alot at the same time.

now I realize that my thoughts do not yet add up but maybe someone will support me here and I won't face too much abuse.

Comments appreciated.

What's with all these QQ posts lately? Limit hold em is high variance, the edges are low online and the rake is very tough. Swings happen, including way way worse swings than what you have (hell you're up money, stop complaining).

Bad beats happen, you just have to deal with them. At the end of the day 16k hands isn't enough to say much about your game, and you're really not running that badly in the end. I'm sure by the simple way you describe playing (I play high cards, but not small pairs) you have some serious work you can do on your game.

And I'm sure there is something you could do during your downswings.. sounds like you tilt your balls off.

so to summarize:

1) variance sucks

2) limit hold em is a farce

3) I need to stop replying to these threads

hi burningsquirrel,

from your post and some of the things in it it sounds like (imo) you have some big things to learn/work on in your game.

luckily you've found a great place here to start doing that! tons of guys here and in other forums have been in the same situation as you and have gotten it together and continue to give out great free advice and exchange ideas with everyone.

i'd suggest reading some (or more) of the good poker books, doing the session reviews, posting hands and continuing to post in others' threads, and many other things i'm sure i'm forgetting to mention.

good luck!

theres something serious wrong with your game if you c/c TT after its been called down on a 56q82 at the river, when I am in that position I think I have the nuts. Have you read SSHE?

And I don't understand why its bad when they disrespect your 3!, I mean by the sounds of it you can VB these guys to death.

Without any other information, it just sounds like your game is extremely passive/weak tight.

Keep playing/studying and getting better. You will get used to the swings.

Sounds like you need a bigger roll, BTW. Playing with "I'm gonna go broke" anxiety is no fun.

well i have 600bb + - sure I have to learn but I'm not actually complaining here.

I don't play how I write by the way I just read that and apply in my head: ah well I got this wrong too lets try a different approach and type it down, while the majority is telling: standard, move on.

the stuff I wrote at the beginning where some of the thinks I used to "know" when I made adjustments to limit hold'dem

and as I was saying I'm in awe about the transformation in the "TT spot" myself I used to think I have the nuts too but I see so often that me and other players don't that I simply lost faith in my game.
and that results in a pretty passive game, still I won't think I play weaktight. but I#m not tilting I think I can controll that pretty well.

I#d like to join the session review but coming from a non-english native background I don't really get the how to with the specific terms. That is what worries me a little that I get something completely wrong or reveal something I absolutely should not ...

I suggest you join cardrunners and watch some vids.

Sounds like you are playing weak-tight to me. Then again, maybe you are just naturally unlucky.

Post more hands in the forum. As a matter of fact, post one right now. Maybe even two.

Coming from one of SSLHE's best posters, I must say that I'm "intrigued" by your statement. Any chance you'd expound just a bit?

Mainly just kidding.. but the super high variance/high rake environment along with increasing amounts of competent players and increasing popularity of NL make limit a bit frustrating these days. I guess it's really more true online at higher stakes where people are cranking out tiny win rates that can be attributed to variance at even fairly large (like 100k) hand samples. Compare that to the win rate of some of the best 5/10+ NL grinders who can bust out the limit equivalent of 4BB/100 while 10 tabling (granted they're rare) and meh.

That being said, live limit hold em games will always be hugely profitable, I just hope they don't die out anytime soon (not that they will, but it seems like less higher limit live games run than in the past, so 20/40 is the top of the ladder at most places).

I feel all better now.

ok
bad beat

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with J J
UTG raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls

Flop: (10 SB) 7 7 T (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls

Turn: (6.5 BB) 8 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls

River: (9.5 BB) 6 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, Hero calls

villain had 66




another with Jacks

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with J J
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls

Flop: (15 SB) 5 A T (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+2 calls

Turn: (9 BB) 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls

River: (12 BB) 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks

villain - A8d



a winner with Jacks

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with J J
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls

Flop: (8 SB) 4 2 4 (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls

Turn: (5.5 BB) 8 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls

River: (7.5 BB) K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

villain -33



another
Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is MP2 with J J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls

Flop: (7.5 SB) 5 Q 9 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls

Turn: (6.75 BB) 9 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls

River: (9.75 BB) A (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

52s , 88 - perfect storm - tell me how to get the value here




a non showdown hand with jacks
Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with J J
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls

Flop: (10.5 SB) 4 Q 2 (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 folds

I only won 61% of times with these fellas. eg.

running 11% under equity with KK, and 9 with QQ, and most amazingly if that may help you guys to look in my game 25%! below with TT, and I don't miss showdown value they have me beat 95% at least, 2 over with AA though,

name another scenario I post a hand

IMO, 6MAX online LHE games are really soft, at least up through 2/4. I am a full ring player live, but have troubles with the FR online games. Short-handed games are ridiculously soft though, if you read up a bit and use good table selection.

-HF

The first three hands are misplayed, imo.

-HF

aha you could eleborate (or however it is written)

Hand #1 - CC one bet on river, CF to bet raise, overcall is debateable
Hand #2 - CC each street can't be correct, bf if you think you have the best hand (based on reads), cf if you don't
Hand #3 - river is a really clear bet, really, really clear

-HF

#1 i see what you mean but why is the bet in hand 3 mandatory then? ok he will call me with 98s but I dont think that it could be the flush or trip 7s, if I get trapped here so be it, well I#m not sure hmm but if you are sitting there with the overpair and get raised that is really a hard spot to fold I was not too sure that I was beat there

#2 ok I went for showdown value there (I somehow agree) - I was folding to a (called) river bet and a raise of course

#3 well don't know AK, KQ huge part of the range but yeah I agree I told that I was getting really timid, you'd fold to a raise`?

the rake is horrible

I suggest you read 2 books by Sklanski and Miller (Small Stakes Hold Em first then Hold Em for Expert Players) and spend some time surfing these boards and posting some hands. Sonds like you play a bit defensively instead of being aggessive. If position and opposition aren't your first thoughts, you have a bit to go and room for improvement.

I don't want this to sound harsh but it comes from experience. You aren't that good so the swings are killing you because your winrate isn't that high. A year ago, I played 100K hands of breakeven poker. It wasn't variance - I just played not that good.

I started reading more, posting more, and thinking about poker more. Now I beat the games for a good clip and huge downswings that would happen every 10K hands don't really happen anymore.

Keep posting, sign up for session reviews, get coaching, sign up for a coaching site, etc. You will get better - just keep trying.

But the players are more horriblerer...or so it seems.

BTW, why would the rake be that much worse than FR? Yes, fewer players, but pot sizes are also larger for comparable limits.

And don't get me started on the points. Oh, the points.

-HF

thanks for the answers some are helpful others are probably a little exaggerated