Villain in the hand is 40-something asian guy I've played with before. He's capable of anything, but plays better than most.

My image sucks as I've been losing.

Hand 1:

OTB with A7o and this is a half kill pot - so 12/24

4 limpers - I limp behind, sb complete, bb checks.

Flop Q75r - checks, villains check, HJ bets, I peel - call to villain who raises. Everyone calls - I call.

Turn 7h - checks to villain who bets, 1 caller, I raise, one cold-caller in between - villain 3-bets, folds to me and I call, other player folds, heads up.

River blanks - villain bets, I call.

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Hand 2:

Villain is different mid-40s asian guy.

22 in the cutoff. bunch of limpers and I limp.

Flop is 872. Checks to me and I bet - everyone calls.

Turn 5. Checks to me and I bet - only villain calls.

River 4 (no flush). Villain checks his hand and checks, I bet, now villain raises, I fold.

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On a separate note - I had to create a new account as I no longer control the email where I registered my old account (old work email I guess). Any way around that mods?

Hand 1: I'd fold pre and 4bet the turn as played.

Hand 2: NH

H1: fold pre. As played shovel in monies on the turn.
H2: good. I probably call though.

Hand 1: Agree with Fold Pre. A7o is a very bad multiway hand. Is villian BB or EP?
As played I 4! vs. Most. I may call vs. the very tightest, but really we are behind like 1 hand.
Hand 2: nh

hand 2 raise pre

4-betting the turn in hand 1 is extremely bad.

why? there aren't many (9) combos of hands that are beating us and we have the overlay of the cold caller in between.

1. fold pre. i would raise if it was suited. as played 4bet the turn, b/c river.
2. b/c river. he likely has a 6, but there are plenty of 2pair hands he might play this way, and the pot is too big to fold.

Yeah, I should have folded hand 1 pre. I've been getting agro with A-rag in late position vs. 1 or maybe 2 limpers (raise pre of course) and don't know why I limped it.

As played does anyone have a problem with the flop peel? Honestly I think the flop is a raise or fold - as in raise for a free turn card or cheap show down, or just muck it.

Fold pre!, if the bettor is wide then raising the flop on the button may be the best play on the rainbow flop. I'd fold the flop if the bettor is one of those showdown bound super nitty types that only bets big hands.

Calling the flop is probably even or slightly -ev (smaller error than pf call for sure) unless you get a lot of action from AK, AJ, A5 when the turn brings an A. It's not like the hand will be hard to play on later streets.

Wat?

The OP apparently agrees with you

What hands do we have in our range when we take this line?

So do I.

In a live LLHE game, a 4-bet here on turn is bad. Villain is practically never showing up with less than a full house after he 3bets this turn, esp in a 6/12 game and your observation that he knows what he's doing. Likely Q7 or 33. But you did say he's capable of anything, so I'd just cry call and hope it's one of those times.

Hero: "Um, I turned trips."

Villain: "I'll tell you what I think of your trips."

Oh, and I have NO problem with limping A7 OTB in hand 1. Indeed, in most SSHE games, a good way to open up your play is to look for situations where you can see flops with good position for a single bet. When you hit big, you can win the maximum, and when you hit small, you can control the pot size and clear outs.

67-J7, and apparently A7.

i get what you're saying. villain should be putting us squarely on a 7 and he is still raising so he likely has a better hand than ours. that may be true, but most of the villains i play with can't hand read that well, and vs. a villain that's described as "capable of anything" i imagine he can take this line with some hands that we beat. maybe it's spewy to 4bet the turn, but i've seen opponents take this line with just a Q or sometimes other goofy hands like a slowplayed AA or KK. i guess there aren't a ton of hands in his range that he can take this line with.

Grunch
Hand 1- fold pre. Fold flop ... calling is really bad. You need 8:1 to call here and you're not getting that. Otoh you can raise if you think the lead bettor is FOS or semi bluffing somehow (its a dry flop) and you think the folks behind you will fold overs. Ott don't fold. Vs a maniac I'd consider a 4b but NOT Vs this Guy. You played this part of the hand OK IMO.

Hand 2- nope call that river. If you never folded sets HU in your life as a lhe player you'd still come out ahead.

You ignore the fact that a lot of LIVE sshe players routinely limp with AQ-AT. In my 8/16 and 15/30 I see "good" players limp with AK. You wanna hit big? Do you wanna pay off big too?

Did you post this before you ate your Wheaties?

unless NOBODY is raising big aces, a limped pot significantly decreases the probability of playing against one.

More broadly, playing trash on the button isn't for inexperienced players. It's something you do when you have a significant edge playing postflop. In general, the type of players who limp AQ are exactly whom you want at your table. Playing pots against them in position is a huge advantage if you know what you are doing.

In any event, you can still control the damage acting last.

Changed my mind on the turn in hand 1, although I don't think it's "extremely bad" in a world where there's a 4bet cap and we can just call the river when villain donks. I guess the problem here is that our hand looks exactly like a 7, and villain's 3bet says "I can beat your 7" so we have to assess just how many combos of good 7's villain has that would do this, and the problem is just that there aren't many combos of suited 7s that a decent villain would show up with here.

Also I definitely agree we should play way more hands OTB for 1 bet against bad villains, but disagree that this is a good candidate. Like I'd rather have J9o or 42s than A7o here and I don't think it's close.

I agree with you vs one or two donkeys but not a herd of them.

fwiw I would fold A9o in this spot as well - but I would [often] raise ATo here. (meh really depends ... nitty game - limpers are a bunch of tp blue hairs I might fold it too) ...

Hand 1 fold preflop

Hand 2 bet, call river raise

Read Hold Em For Advanced Players for limit ownage