This isn't backing - it's a loan.

Hey nutter,

Seriously, there hasn't been a single out of line post in this thread that I can recall. There are few forums that you could go and get responses this nice. This is insulting and out of line, imo

You've had some very good players, including some who play for a living, give you honest opinions. If you don't like the opinion? That's your problem. I took most of the responses in this thread to be people trying to help you not make a big mistake. You're fixated on "how many VPP/hand" and "what's my biggest swing while mass grinding". These people are trying to give you advice for life.

CaptainR and BobT (to name a couple) have likely seen 100's or even 1000's of people trying to make a go as professional players. If you think their advice doesn't apply to you, that's fine. Calling them haters is silly, they gave you a gift.

I did a quick look at your past posts, and I don't see a single LHE strat post. You basically came to our forum having never contributed and demanded answers to your satisfaction. That's fine, as long as you intend to become a productive member of our little community. Is that the plan?

I'll ask one favor in return for all the time people spent trying to help. Be one of the 10% of people you believe who exist on forums-- contribute something. Make good strat replies to hands and post a few of your own. You'll get something out of it, too.

Then don't, if you do not want to help past that im fine with it. The part that I dont understand and dont know how else to put this is

Caps so this could be picked out for lower response
IF ONE PERSON SAYS IT THEN ITS BEEN SAID, WHAT IS THE POINT OF BEING A FOLLOWER AND SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER. BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND HELP THATS WHAT HIS FORUM IS ABOUT. IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THEN DONT POST... its that simple thats whats getting frustrating is the repetitiveness of it.

Staking
If i get in a staking deal im going to be paying more than $806.25 back to the staker in less than 4 years. He will understand variance but what if he wants to pull out of the deal after a bad downswing. Staking deal means its never really all my money so I can always have the fear of the staker wanting to pull out or want me to move up when I may not. That and finding a staker in the first place.

Going Broke part
I think i responded in the deleted post, but if you read all my posts I have stop loss so this does not happen. I will elaborate more, I have to run horrible since im now going to start with 1500bb and 6 months LR. Plus im going to have a part time job until i go to Cali that pays for my loan which is unsecured and part of my car payment plus full benefits. If I go down 1500bb then I will stop, the worst of the worst at 2/4 have not lost that much since May, by Feb I will be in my master program which my student loans will pay for my school and living. My 6 month LR is set up for what I pay now so even though I will be covered by student loans my actual LR will be as if I was not in school.

I dont care that people are telling me its a bad idea im ok with that its the fact that its the same thing over and over

I understand the risk thats why im taking steps to make sure everything goes well but if it doesnt I understand im in debt 8.3k and owe $173 a month (not hard to pay back)

Even on poker static Barry Greenstein comments on how negative 2+2 can be and the guys agree. I posted before seeing this but its not like others dont see it. Ok 70% is high obv but the CAPs above is what im talking about its ppl just being followers is what is unnecessary

Good job not knowing what compound interest is smart***
after one year it earns 12.48% but since the rate does vary it can earn 11ish to 12.5ish

Maybe you'll read my post, next...

If not, you should.

I wasnt saying a post has been out of line its that I get multiply post that say the same thing with no other advice.



I started off thinking about nothing else than vpp/hand and playing a lot of tables but after reading what people wrote i changed my mind. I like to get the vpp/hand so I can plan out my fiances since I know what I can play comfortably and what I would have to work very hard for. If i put in volume comfortably as you had suggested and focus on my game then I will be better off then what i original planned which was only looking at vpp's.

I was not calling them out personally its was 2+2 in general, sometimes threads become follow the leader and repetitiveness sets in. I meant nothing towards them personal so if it came across as that im sorry

I agree with you but I dont think I demanded answers I just demanded if someone is going to post not to post what the person before them did. I do plan on contributing, I read up on MrDurrden after you told me about it and one of the post stuck out. He asked about how many hands he posts and if that was OK, the response was along the lines of every 3 hands posted you help out. I thought about that and decided I should do the same otherwise im just taking advantage of the forum

I will sry about the exaggeration

Yes, this is much better than losing your bankroll.



A thought experiment: If you were a bank, why would you make an unsecured loan to play poker at 10.75 percent when you could lend the money to a huge institution such as PNC and make 12.48%?

I don't know where you get the math, but e^(1.5%)=1.0150113, this means a continuously compounding 1.5% interest rate will give out an annual return of 1.501%...

If you are going to grind out poker for a living with borrowed money, perhaps you should improve your personal finances first. I.e. have a budget for food, entertainment, rent and what not and sticking to it.

I don't know why someone like you would have a $800 commitment every single month in car/rent payments. Shack up with your parents for less rent and bum them for food is the way to go.

1.00%*12
duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nutter,

The reason you are getting the same response to certain parts of your plan in repetition is because that is how forums work. Initial responses to questions are often repetitive. The most interesting threads are the ones where a point is raised and there are many divergent views. In the case of you borrowing money we all said the same thing because we all felt the same and wanted it to be clear.

If just one person had come in and said, "borrowing money doesn't sound smart...", and nobody was allowed to repeat any sentiments then you would have only gotten one response and just written that one response off as ignorant because, "What des one misinformed internet poster really know?". In some cases, the only way to really get a point across is through repetition.

When someone posts a hand where they they capped pocket 4s against two tight EP raisers preflop and then proceeded to flop quads and wonder which line makes the most postflop, the most important responses are going to be the 10 people who admonish the poster for their preflop play, not the ones who concentrate on getting the extra BB postflop. It is preflop where the biggest error occurred and the responses should reflect that if we are doing a good job as a community. In our estimation as a forum the most important decision point is whether to fund poker with debt. That is why we all keep harping on it.

Do you think that pointing out your APR is even higher than what you've posted is going to help your case or hurt your case?

Do you think that admitting to taking a loan at a variable interest rate when interest rates are at near-all-time lows is going to make you look smarter or dumber?

Disclaimer: To be clear, you should consider this a negative, rude, and unhelpful post. Its primary intent is to mock, not to correct. If you get anything out of this post, it was incidental and unintentional on my part.

Nutter - 4 years ago you are basically where I was in poker. The problem I think at the core of this is that you have never really grinded out online poker, so you really don't know what your winrate is. It could be negative. With some more information your plan might not be so bad.

Honestly, I'm not as negative now as some people in this thread. Mostly because you mention student loans paying for living expenses. But, there are so few who can cut it in this world. Keep in mind one more very important thing. If you play poker now and neglect your school, you will severely limit your career prospects in the future. It was the single biggest drawback for my decision. I had a solid Master's that I (knowingly) gave up on. BUT, I also waited until I was playing 15/30 and 30/60 online. My point is, don't let poker usurp your education because it honestly isn't worth it as a career unless you can realistically make 100K+.

At some point, it becomes more interesting to see how this works out than grind in the fine points of why it probably won't work. Best of luck, imo. I hope to see some strategy posts and the odd update of progress.

I have read though this entire thread and think that I have not missed anything - of course, I agree that you should not borrow money to play poker but that is one more guys saying that - repetition helps - we think it is a bad idea.

Forum guys please correct me here - I can not find any evidence that OP can beat the game; did I miss something along the way?

The plan as I see it is to borrow money (high interest rate) and win $15/hr playing 2/4 online on 4 or so tables? What is the chance of success? What it the chance of going broke?

I lol'd at the disclaimer, thanks for being funny atleast I was just pointing out that Im using money that is sitting around to gain some interest and I would be putting in 25% of winnings (tax purposes) per month as well.

Thanks, I agree on educatoin not taking the back burner. My ultimate goal is to work in sports. Hopefully MLS to start then EPL one day.

I think im going to just end this thread and once I get everything together I will post a new one with progress on a weekly basis. It should be worthy. I hope it doesn't end with me having to wear a in the forum. In the meantime ill put my time in on the forum so I wont be some leech

Thanks for the help from everyone, especially Doug.

It possible I start the year with probably 2.5k in bankroll. However every 6 months the games seem to get tougher. By next year a lot of reg. will probably quit FR limit. due to competition. I suggest get coaching for hu and 6 max first. It will help if you want to beat FR. If you trying to run for SNE with 6 max that a whole different beast.

EDIT: I realize my example is probably bad. I think I got lucky with downswing at the beginning even though I hit a 1000 BB downswing at 5/10. You probably need 3000 BB bankroll by next year if you serious about SNE.

Hey Nutter, PM for skype or AIM details about some of this stuff. I like you for some reason Maybe it's the soccer thing.

Nah, I've only seen 1. But he moved to L.A. and it's not clear he's failed yet.



I'm actually a little less negative now that you mentioned you're going to work part time until you move and also have student loans to cover your school/life expenses. Frankly, I'm amazed the bank will loan you any money at all, but I guess they're assuming you're going to continue at your current job for a while.

I still think there's very little upside vs. trying to find another job in California and having reasonable, stable income and playing poker a little on the side. But if you want to borrow money at 15% to play poker... that's your prerogative. Hell, I'd loan you money at 14% if I knew you were going to pay it back. Those are pretty ridiculous interest rates. I'm not even sure the mafia has juice that high.

I'm also curious what you said to the bank to get the loan?

Playing the home game circuit around here over the years and talking to people online, I've met a good many people who tried to make a go as a pro in one form or another. I have a lot of respect for the stick-to-it-ness and self-discipline it takes to make a successful go of it. I think Abdul put it best, something along the lines of "It isn't about the money, anyone who has what it takes to make a living as poker pro could make more doing something else".

I would have to deny you I'm getting it at 10.75 now and just refinanced my car loan to get another 1.3% off

AK-47




When I played in college my schedule was great. Wake up around 9 go to class til 1 go to casino play till 5 go to practice till 7 back to casino till 1 or 2. This was mostly Mon-Thurs. Fri-Sun depending if we had a home game during season or what was going on around campus, I would be putting in a min of 12 hour sessions to 48 hr ones game depending. O the good old days Since school was already payed for I had to cover the rest... apt, car, beer ect TY guys at 10/20.

I hope I can make poker a stepping stone into something else more meaningful, this time instead of two trips to the UK and Europe

[QUOTE]I hope I can make poker a stepping stone into something else more meaningful, this time instead of two trips to the UK and Europe /QUOTE]

After it is all said and done, you will have had two trips to the UK and europe, which I don't have. Although I do have one trip to Australia from poker, and three of the Party poker cruises. I don't think you've done badly so far, and I wish you luck. I hope that you get the MLS internship, that sounds like it might be a great steppingstone for you. And when you add in that you aren't trying to make this your life gig, just something that you do for a while, while you are moving on to your career, I don't think it is a horrible idea.

good luck, and let us know how it all works out.

Thanks bob I hope it works out, I'll be picking up my loan tomorrow or Monday so I'll start a new thread next week.

Once you get rolling on this you should start a blog imo.

+1

OP, you can do anything you put your mind to. sure the games are hard as hell, but the greats still win at a solid clip. don't listen to people who tell you that you can't do it. you only get one shot at life, give it your best shot! if you don't give it your best shot, you'll always wonder what might have been.