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I check an overpair. I check an overpair.

11-20-2014 , 02:54 PM
I raise 99 UTG, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop (6 SB): 753r

SB checks, BB donks, I raise, SB folds, BB calls.

BB is a good player, maybe even very good, so I'm baffled by the donk/call. I would have expected d/3b-b(/3b) or c/r/4-b or c/r/c-c/r from monsters (I had intended to call down from the flop 3b) and a c/r from TP, so I put him on one non-top pair plus draw (Ye Olde "let's see if he'll free card overs, then call a river bet with A-high UI" line) even though that's incongruous with my read. Maybe 88? A6, A4?? Certainly not AQ-AT and he'd have 3-bet AK preflop for sure.

I'm not waiting for the turn here because SB may call 2 and because I think d/3 and d/c are both unbalanced so I'm happy.

Turn (5 BB): 6

BB checks, I check.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 03:21 PM
how many handed. this is a texture where donking seems more appropriate than others.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 03:31 PM
Bet and fold to a raise or is that too weak and exploitable?

It's better than checking and calling a bet on the river right?
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 04:27 PM
I like the check. This is exactly the situation where we hate a checkraise the most, and don't mind giving a free card so much. His range includes a lot of pair+straight draw combos (some of which got there), few 6-outer overcard hands.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 04:43 PM
I check here also. Given the pot size and his range, I don't mind giving a free card. It blows having to call a c/r in a smallish pot knowing you may have up to 12 outs.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 06:35 PM
if villain is the thinking type who donks flop because he fears hero would check, he would also be the type to donk on turn, fearing hero would check. it all come down to which level each players puts the other on.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 06:44 PM
if this player actually is good, i tend to want to take the opposite action of what i think he wants me to take on the flop.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
how many handed. this is a texture where donking seems more appropriate than others.
9 or 10.

Regardless of texture he should count on me to cbet very close to 100% when raising early and IP vs the two blinds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeo
if this player actually is good, i tend to want to take the opposite action of what i think he wants me to take on the flop.
You fold?
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian
9 or 10.

Regardless of texture he should count on me to cbet very close to 100% when raising early and IP vs the two blinds.



You fold?
no, i would not fold. i would at least consider just calling the flop.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 08:04 PM
Whats the worst hand you bet the turn with?
I check an overpair. Quote
11-20-2014 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
how many handed. this is a texture where donking seems more appropriate than others.
This. Though, I doubt Calli has much of a check back range on a 7 hi board after raising UTG 3 ways; has villain ever seen you do that? As rodeo said, villain is likely anticipating a raise out of you, so I think calling to pop turn is a decent idea. Though maybe not this turn.

As played, turn check is good, I really don't want to be check raised here. Bet river if checked to, call if bet into.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-21-2014 , 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
This. Though, I doubt Calli has much of a check back range on a 7 hi board after raising UTG 3 ways; has villain ever seen you do that? As rodeo said, villain is likely anticipating a raise out of you, so I think calling to pop turn is a decent idea. Though maybe not this turn.

As played, turn check is good, I really don't want to be check raised here. Bet river if checked to, call if bet into.
I still pop the flop with this hand since I think I'm still a favorite, I don't want the sb to see a cheap turn, and I think 99 is too weak to pop the turn.

How I play the turn depends on what "good" means. Is villain leveling good or fundamentally good? I'm surprised villain didn't donk the turn, so if he does have a turn donk range, then I probably am more inclined to bet for value.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-21-2014 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger415
I still pop the flop with this hand since I think I'm still a favorite, I don't want the sb to see a cheap turn, and I think 99 is too weak to pop the turn.

How I play the turn depends on what "good" means. Is villain leveling good or fundamentally good? I'm surprised villain didn't donk the turn, so if he does have a turn donk range, then I probably am more inclined to bet for value.
I don't think so at all. I'd rather pop the turn w/ 99 than AA (I'd hope to b3b some bricky turns with that hand if he x/r me). Plus, if we aren't raising 99 on a blank turn, what are we raising? 77/AA/KK?
I check an overpair. Quote
11-21-2014 , 02:23 PM
I'd bet.
1. You are giving a fee card when he might be on an an inside draw.
2. What is in his range that he could call UTG raise with from BB?
3. What hand does he put you on?
4. If he is a good player, what would he raise OOP with and then check the turn?

This is what I would be asking myself and I think I would bet.

That said, depending on you feel for this hand and your read on this player, I don't think there is anything wrong with checking the turn. I don't like the 6 much, but I don't think too many 4's will be in his range. Could be A4 though for an open ended, and he is trying to induce a bluff.

Either way is good imho.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-21-2014 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
I don't think so at all. I'd rather pop the turn w/ 99 than AA (I'd hope to b3b some bricky turns with that hand if he x/r me). Plus, if we aren't raising 99 on a blank turn, what are we raising? 77/AA/KK?
I don't think AA is strong enough to b3b the turn after popping the flop esp if BB has a 3b range preflop.

I actually prefer to flat AA/KK and pop the turn since it gets counterfeited less easily than 99, although I probably just fast play it still. 99 is too vulnerable to balance in this situation imo.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-22-2014 , 01:47 AM
when i suggested that we at least consider just calling the flop, it wasn't with the intention of raising the turn. just calling gives the sb a great price to continue with a wide range of hands, that's true, but it also leaves us with a few extra options we wouldn't have if we raise the flop.

with this suggestion, i'm operating on the assumption that the bb is good/very good. if that is indeed the case, it would seem like bb has some type of weaker made hand, sometimes better than ours (two pair+), that would like us to protect it by raising to force the sb out. maybe we shouldn't do that. now, i'm not saying this is the correct/optimal play. i'm just suggesting that we should at least consider it. the standard play would be to raise.
I check an overpair. Quote
11-23-2014 , 01:00 AM
I think preflop and flop are good.

"good" or "very good" players will throw in another SB preflop with a lot of hands, especially suited ones, to see a flop against two players in good relative position to the pfr

I like the turn check. I really only want 1 BB going in the pot after this awful card. There are some turns I'd bet, but not a 6, as this improves the equity of his likely range and I feel like getting 2+ bets in the rest of the hand means 99 is toast. I'd only consider pumping the pot if you have a fun spite call dynamic going on.

If checked to, there are a decent amount of rivers I would bet to try and get some value from bluff catchers that are praying you have AK.
I check an overpair. Quote

      
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