Local 6/12 game and lately I am having a very hard time winning. I am getting run over. Part is that I am getting unlucky but part is that I am not playing as well as I should. Standard miss flops, miss draws, and get second best hands.

So, I need to adjust.

I have J J OTB and I raise 3 limpers, the blinds come in and there are 5 players to the flop plus me.

Flop: (11 sb) K Q 9 (6 players)

Checked to me and I bet, all fold but the CO who is very loose and could have ATC but probably has something to call with, pair, flush draw, straight draw.

Maybe a leak here is to take a free card? Care to comment?

Turn: (6.5 bb) J (2 players)

I hit my set but any Ten makes a straight. I have Ten outs to a FH.

CO checks and I should check behind agree? He is not folding any hand that beats me and he is not folding any draw.

We could run the math here but it seems to me that if I take as many free cards here as I can I will lose less when I am beat and win less when I win on hands like this where I am likely to lose.

If we look at SSHE on the section about evaluating the flop this is a hand that I will lose much more that win. So I want to be check, calling and folding.

Yes, there are monsters out there and they want my chips.

I bet the Turn which might be spew, he called.

I will win 25% of my bet and 25% of his bet when he calls me on the turn.

If I continue to bet when I should check I am leaking chips and
If I continue to call when I should fold I am leaking chips.

And if you don't bet when you have the likely best hand, you're leaving chips on the table. In this hand bet the flop, then bet the turn.

FYP

How many of those hands are you ahead of right now? (an estimated % is a good answer, pokerstove result is a better answer)

How many of those are drawing dead?

It depends on villian.

If villain is tight aggressive, I check and call the river or bet if it checked to me.
If villain is loose aggressive, I bet/call the turn and evaluate the river. If villain can hand read, the fold is likely if he bets. If he checks, I like a check because if he can hand read, he knows you have to fold to a check raise. If villain can't hand read then bet or call.

If LAG calls the turn, then I bet or raise/call the river if he can't read hands.

If he is passive and puts in a bet on the river, then a fold might be in order, but it depends if he will only bet the nuts or not. KK and QQ are not likely, but he may also bet 2 pair such as KJ or QJ. If he can bet 2 pair, then a call is in order.

I hope I got that all right.

How 'bout a villain like this?

On the flop, when I am in position (no matter what I flop or how many opponents) or if I flop TP or better (regardless of what position or how many opponents) or when there are 2 opponents or less (regardless of my position or what I flop), I cbet 100% of the time. The only time I don't cbet is when I'm OOP, flop air, and there are a ton of people behind me.

(Leak?)

Yeah, but he's calling kings, queens, and maybe aces and jacks. Bet IMO.

Thanks - ATC preflop but something that he likes post flop. Like a Ten or a flush draw.

But, I'm on tilt.

I bet the flop and bet the turn. I missed the river and we checked.

Or a K or a Q or a 9 or, if you're really lucky, the case J.

So you wanna give him infinite odds to draw by checking when you hit your hand?

nope - i bet and we agree that a bet was right.

thx

Keep betting your very good hand until his action indicates his hand is better.

i bet this turn, but if the board was KQJT i would value check here all day

if you bet the turn and get called you have to bet a blank river. checking behind is really bad.

Pre-flop and flop were fine with what you were given.

The J on the turn was a pretty card because you are now only behind to a Tx and higher sets (which seem unlikely given the action), the CO checks I would fire a bet even if I get re-raised (I would obviously call and not 3-bet) and see the river.

If raised, the CO will bet out on the river regardless of any card that comes and if you fill out to a full house you will extract another bet from him. If you don't fill out you are still calling because it's a set.

This hand is not a catastrophe if you get raised on the turn as you will still have a ton of redraws to a win/chop.

Bet. Don't check in this situation. You said it yourself, he isn't folding any draw, so this is your last chance to extract value from him if he is on a draw.

turn is a much easier bet than the flop.

i bet both fwiw

...ihatejackstheyneverwin...

nh, what was the question? running bad?
maybe river is the toughest street in this hand.

Running bad yesterday and running good today - game will drive a same man to drink But, I already drink.

Just keep betting until told to stop sounds good to me.

Thanks guys and gals.

Don't let him get away with calling you a gal, smitty.

given that my last 2 avatars were a girl and a gay fish, it's not too surprising that people make this mistake.

Is everyone here a guy?

Preflop looks obvious.

I'm guessing vs 5 opponents that someone has a K or a Q and that someone ain't ever folding. I just take a free card on the flop and check/fold the turn UI, especially if there's a bet and a call. We had a really good hand preflop so we raised and got our money in good; after the flop, we have a fairly bad hand, no point in putting in money if we don't have to, IMO.

ETA: As played, on the turn I'm betting like 100% of the time. The CO has a huge range of hands that don't have a T in them that he's calling with, and if he happens to have a T then we have a zillion outs to call his check/raise. If he does check/raise, I'm probably calling the river UI cuz the pot will be fairly big at this point but that may be a leak.

GcluelessnoobG

Hmm, so I guess I'm being MUBSy by being the only guy here who checks the flop? 5 villains and two overcards on board, someone has a K/Q, no?

It looks like I question my play and most of the time the forum posters agree that I played it correctly at least about 80% of the time (mostly I do not value bet the river) - I need to improve my play. Scary flops that are full of mines and quicksand are not easy to play. Often the advice is grit your teeth and bet your damn hand. If you get raised and lose s**t happens. That is part of the game. Tiptoeing around is not good poker.

Repeat after me - poker is a game of incomplete information - deal with it.

On the Internet, everyone is a guy until evidence is provided that shows otherwise. Even then.... it might still be a guy.

Checking the flop gives the villains too much. I feel fine with betting the flop and after reflection I have to bet the turn since I can not give a free card here. River gets tricky.