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06-30-2008 , 11:39 PM
I have 89d in the BB and its raised to me from middle position, I call and 2 middle limpers call as well

Flop is Jd 4d 2c. I lead out, middle positions fold and raiser re raises and I call. Turn is Qd, I now have my flush and lead out and again raised. I don't re raise because i'm thinking since he was a middle raiser he may have a big D. Turn is a blank and I lead out again and get raised again, my move and thoughts on the hand?
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07-01-2008 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECS
I have 89d in the BB and its raised to me from middle position, I call and 2 middle limpers call as well

Flop is Jd 4d 2c. I lead out, middle positions fold and raiser re raises and I call. Turn is Qd, I now have my flush and lead out and again raised. I don't re raise because i'm thinking since he was a middle raiser he may have a big D. Turn is a blank and I lead out again and get raised again, my move and thoughts on the hand?
I prefer a checkraise on the flop, because it gets more money in and may buy you a free card some of the time. if you did this, the turn lead would be a good move.
definetely 3bet the turn, hope to call a cap. you WANT action from a big diamond
I assume you meant river in your last sentence. Your donk bet looks so weak on that river that he will be raising you very very light and you should again hope to bet 3bet and get the most money in. you are good so often here and in a small stakes game i would no hesitate to make this move.
gl
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07-01-2008 , 01:35 AM
Yea, looking back i agree that I would prefer the CNR on the flop
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07-01-2008 , 01:43 AM
This is really hard without reads. My big question would be whether the Villain is the type to raise anything but big pocket pairs. Particularly if this is live, you will find many people who will never raise even AKsuited because "it almost always loses". People who will raise the A - 10 (and below) suited and below are rare live. So unless you're up against one of these really LAG types, then you need to to get more money in on the turn and river. Without any reads, I say you should 3bet the turn. If you get four bet, call the reraise and check/call the river. If your opponent just flat calls your turn three-bet, then lead out the river and call if raised.

Again, if this is live, plenty of people fall in love with Aces or Kings here particularly if they have the A or K of diamonds. This could also very easily be pocket jacks, queens or even fours.
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07-01-2008 , 02:31 AM
btw please for future posts make your format a little neater example:

my reads here, stats whatever, info on this particular room's players etc

stakes

dealt to hero:

action

flop:

action

you get it...
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07-01-2008 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECS
I have 89d in the BB and its raised to me from middle position, I call and 2 middle limpers call as well

Flop is Jd 4d 2c. I lead out, middle positions fold and raiser re raises and I call. Turn is Qd, I now have my flush and lead out and again raised. I don't re raise because i'm thinking since he was a middle raiser he may have a big D. Turn is a blank and I lead out again and get raised again, my move and thoughts on the hand?
If it's 3 handed I don't like leading the flop into a raiser. You're not trying to trap a huge field in there and pump the equity if your draw, so i don't think there's a reason to do this. You could c/r the flop to clean up some of your outs (folding out middle position), but I'd be more likely to just call. C/r might be a good play too if you think you can push the initial raiser off overcards, otherwise just call.

On the turn I'd 3-bet for sure. If he 4-bets we can just call down, if he just has a big diamond he pays the maximum to see the river. I don't get why you'd call the turn and donk a blank river. If you think he was bluff raising a draw on the turn then inducing a bluff would be better. If he has the nuts you're just going to get raised again.
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07-01-2008 , 11:29 AM
Flop bet is bad. What we're you trying to accomplish by leading with 9 high into a pfr?

c/c flop; c/r turn
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07-01-2008 , 12:38 PM
I guess I should of included a not on the villian, he was very laggy, in fact I walked away with double my chip stack and he went busto, he sucked basically which is why I was trying to sweeten pot with a lead on the flop, he also would lay down a hand even for 1 small bet if he totally whiffed.

So anyways, on the river I bet and he re raised and I called. I didnt 3 bet because frankly I had never seen him raise on the river, he was smooth calling 2 pair, ect so I was a little worried about a bigger flush and he had the nuts A10d. Like I said before, no big deal he busted because he played bad most the time but here I think I would of rather c/call the flop, C/R the turn and when he re raise I C/Call the river
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07-01-2008 , 01:20 PM
Don't lead the flop - this is regardless of your reads and the behavior of the villian. You want to pay one bet to see the turn, with the largest number of people in the hand - this maximizes your value (this could change if there were more players).

On the turn you need to make the move that gets the most chips in the pot - either c/r or lead out hoping to b/3-bet. Call down from a cap, lead any river if your 3-bet is called.

This is a classic case of results skewing your perception of the hand, and you need to be careful of that. Pump this pot when you make your flush, if he's got a bigger flush shrug and move on knowing you played it correctly. Slowing down before he's shown more aggression, especially with your read that he is laggy, is a mistake that will cost you a lot in the long run, even if it saved you a bet or two here.
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07-01-2008 , 02:47 PM
Yea, good point, and I agree the results are skewing the hand some, most likely I should of re raised their because he could have a bunch of different hands
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07-02-2008 , 11:51 AM
I don't see what's so horrible about leading out on the flop (although it would be better if there were more players in the hand). If we trap both limpers between us and the raiser, we're making money; if only one limper calls then it's a breakeven play. Kinda unlucky that both limpers folded in a medium sized pot.

Why in the world would we attempt to check/raise this flop? That would blow the limpers out of the pot, leaving us heads up and OOP.

GcluelessnoobG
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07-02-2008 , 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I don't see what's so horrible about leading out on the flop (although it would be better if there were more players in the hand). If we trap both limpers between us and the raiser, we're making money; if only one limper calls then it's a breakeven play. Kinda unlucky that both limpers folded in a medium sized pot.

Why in the world would we attempt to check/raise this flop? That would blow the limpers out of the pot, leaving us heads up and OOP.

GcluelessnoobG
That is along the lines of my leading out, they were in fact call stations, I also was shocked that they both folded.
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07-02-2008 , 11:38 PM
Knocking the limpers out gives you a better chance to win if you catch an 8 or a 9.
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