8/16 live

Hand #1-Villain is in MP. He is playing too many hands and coldcalling a bit too much.

Villain opens in EP, folds to Hero is in the CO with K K who 3 bets, folds to villain who calls. HU

(5.5 Sbs) Flop comes Q J J Villain checks, Hero Bets, Villain calls.

(3.75 BBs) Turn comes the 4, Villian checks, Hero bets, Villian very methodically stacks his chips to raise and does so witha very serious look, Hero calls.

(7.75 BBs) River comes the 8 Villain bets, Hero calls.
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Hand #2-Same table, diff villain.

He is new to table so no read yet. He is a chatty player if that matters at all.

Two EP limpers, Hero is MP with A A And raises, Folds around to Villain in the SB who calls, BB folds, rest call. 4 ways

(7.5 Sbs) Flop comes K 8 3 Checked to Hero who bets, SB raises very fast , folds to hero who 3 bets, SB caps very fast. HU

(7.75 BBs) Turn comes the 5 SB bets fast again, Hero calls.

(9.75 Bbs) River is the K SB bets fast, Hero calls.

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Hand 1-Should this turn be an easy raise here for me or?

Hand 2-Anybody find a fold anywhere here? Fold the river?

Hand 1: I think this is perfect. If he's bluffing, great let him bluff off those chips to you. Same if he thinks he's value betting a Queen. Save some chips if he's got the goods, we're going to showdown.

Hand 2: With no read this is an interesting spot. I think I'm popping him once more on the turn, although going into calldown is certainly a reasonable idea. We're still ahead of a portion of his coldcalling range that likes this flop. The river is a flat call, we don't know this guy and he's going to have to show us the goods.

Hand 1 I play the same. if you're asking whether you should 3-bet the turn, I think it's clearly no; Jx will never fold, while Qx might (whereas if you just call Qx will either bet the river again or c/c.). basically you are only getting called when you're beat. given your physical read on villain (the flop c/c, methodical turn c/r is often bad news), I could *consider* finding a fold with a really solid grasp of his play, but I would call down.

Hand 2 is very close to a river fold. you are getting almost 11-1, true, but unless villain is extremely LAG, he has to hold specifically 83 for you to be winning. the flop is completely dry so he is not jamming a draw of any kind; his line is either TP, a set, or 2 pair, and the only slice of that range you beat is 83, unless he is running a pure-air 3-street bluff.
had the board not paired Ks on the river I would call, and I agree with calling down from flop cap as villain can have just top pair.

Hand 1 is fine as played, I dont think you can raise that turn profiably.

Hand 2, The river is probably a fold, but I am calling nearly always. We beat PP 99+ or A8 type hands. When we dont pop the turn, villain has little reason to think his PP or 8 is not good.

When the river K does not scare him, I am thinking he has AK,KQ or a fh.

i like hand one(although i don't think folding the turn is out of the question). i wonder what we beat on the river in hand 2.

i would fold the turn in hand 1. i dont think its particularly close.

when you 3 bet preflop in these games and people come over the top of you on the turn they are telling you they can beat whatever premium hand you 3 bet with. so fold.

Hand 2- I fold on river. My bet is that he has K-Q, less likely AK.

If you advocate a fold, that's fine, but it's definitely close.


I agree, but in his mind is it not quite possible that his AQ or KQ now beats OP's AK. 8/16 players like to conveniently put PF raisers on hands they beat.


Personally I play it the same way OP did.

ZOMG, I guess I'm never playing live again...has it really come to this? He can't have KTs, AQ, T9s, KK and all kind of stuff here? Level?

[QUOTE=KitCloudkicker;3675545]i would fold the turn in hand 1. i dont think its particularly close.

I disagree. People do weird stuff in limit all the time in limit, this is AQ and KQ way too often of the time, especially with the preflop raise.

Hand 1) played perfectly.

Hand 2) played perfectly.

Hand 1-BB Babar once posted(not word for word but close) something that went through my head on the turn: Live poker, turn raises are usually the nuts.

Hand 2-Tough spot for sure. Doesn't look like I am beating too much here with this dudes actions. Against an unknown though???

I guess I dont feel awful about showing both hands down but I feel better about showing down hand 1 than hand 2(not because I won or lost BTW). People do some crazy ***t on paired boards at times.

1 - A guy that is OOP and knows how you play waits, and c/r's the turn h/u. Are you good 20% of the time? Has this guy shown ANY evidence of BS in any earlier play? Are there any meta-game issues you want to consider? Any prior hand history? I smell trouble and I probably call this one down too often.

2 - Against a brand new player I probably call down too often. But the only call that is questionable is the river. That card was awful. At the same time, I've seen too many people come to a table and try to push the table around. Metagame makes me call him down.