8/16 live. My current image is one of really tight(very card dead).

Villain is Sb. He is a LP. Hasn't raised a hand yet, PF or other.

EP limps in, Hero is in the HJ with T J & raises, folds to SB who calls, BB calls, EP calls. 4 ways (8 SBs)

Flop is 8 A 9 Checks to Hero who bets, SB calls, rest fold. HU (10 SBs)

Turn is the 4 SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls. (7 BBs)

River is the T SB bets, Hero folds.

I entertained the idea of 3 betting this but the fact that he was a LP and hadn't yet raised anything=ding ding ding! Multi way pot I can see 3ing here but HU with a LP who C/R'd me on the turn?

This look okay?

Frond,

Looks fine. 3-betting the turn would be really bad.

Chief

El standardo.

-d

Tom - if you're looking for alternate plays, you could also limp preflop and check through the turn as played. 3-betting the turn is terrible. Just make sure the hero folds the river - mkay?

Scarm returns. Aiyah to you!

I was so hoping to hit this hand. It probably would have gone at least 3 on the end. That is if the board didn't pair. Villain had AA that he just called with in the SB???

Rich, I knew you were way overdue for some good 8/16 sessions. Welcome back matey.

Maybe you might want to mention that possible weak collusion thing we saw that we talked about today? That is if you think it is worth discussing in a diff thread perhaps. If not no biggie. Start posting more dude. We need you here.

Thanks Tom. I will post more. Now that I have a bankroll again, I'll be playing more too!

Looks perfect. The c/r turn lead me to an A not suspecting two.
FWIW, over this past weekend I was back to playing 5/10 live and had at least two players who refused to raise AA and KK. One had AA cracked in back to back hands and never once raised! Three trips to the ATM to reload for him, I hated to see him leave. Muwhahahahaha

* grunch *

I play it exactly the same way Frondsy.

3betting a LP HU who check/raises the turn is spewing IMO, even with this big draw. Add two more opponents and you probably have a thin value 3bet.

GcluelessnoobG

It still baffles me why people can't raise with AA PF... even on an 8/16 game?
Seriously... I've been noticing alot more of this lately, maybe it's just been a dry spell, but I'm sitting down at tables full of tight passive players, I table change, and wind up with the same crowd with different faces... do these people just have like a shell shock trauma associated with AA getting cracked they just turn into a deer in the headlights for most of the hand?

It's always the old farts doing this too.... "I raise and everyone folds! so what's the point??"

well old man, if you actually played a hand instead of waiting for AA or KK every time (and ALWAYS limping with QQ no matter if it's 1 bet to go or taking a cap cold) people might not be so afraid of you when you're in a pot.

Seriously? whats going through the mind of a passive player when they get two cards in-front of them?

I try to rationalize some of it through thier actions but sometimes... it just seems like borderline ******ation.

Poker = socialization/not sitting home alone or with wife/husband

At a poker room they get to know other retirees and it's usually cordial and they usually don't lose too much money and they have a chance to actually win money on occassion.

For them playing 4-6 hrs per day is probably about the same cost as a round of golf.

Yep. That's why those players show up and play for about 20 minutes before getting an out button and then taking 45 minutes to eat only to come back and notice that it's not their blind yet so they go have a smoke and miss another round or two. When they finally are ready to play they fold everything for a round and then ask for a table change because they're not getting any cards. I don't mind playing short handed while the old timers are doing their thing, but some of the gambooolers get really angry at these players. Pretty funny that it puts them on tilt.

Ha. I always 3-bet this online, and I always call the river. Funny how different live may be. FYI, I'd still 3-bet it live, but then, I don't play live.

good luck.
eric

i'll just chime in and say yup.

Why?

A LP check/raising this turn obviously has us crushed and ain't folding ever. Even though we have a bunch of flush/straight outs, we don't have enough against only one villain to 3bet for value. Am I missing something?

Hey Eric, isn't a Lve LP player a majority of the time showing up with a set here and not just a 2pr hand? The ole "I'm a LP so it's my job to always wait till the turn to do my biz" kind of a thang?

Is this a standard 3 banger online for a lot of you?

Loose passive players live or online don't c/r turns with draws. And they don't fold Ax or better if you 3-bet. When a loose passive c/r this turn you know 3 things almost certainly:

1) You're behind.
2) He's not folding.
3) A J/T river is not an out for you.

So what would be the point of 3-betting? And no I don't think a LAG image/metagame value is worth nearly the .33-.66 BB's you lose by 3-betting this turn. Especially when you'll often win the same amount by getting to raise the river when you hit.

I'm not saying a 3-bet is never right here. You should sometimes of course. But IMO there absolutely has to be some fold equity involved and you don't have that against a loose/passive opponent.

Chief