Good, thinking LAGTAG UTG+1 raises, I'm to his left and 3! black JJ, tightish/passive guy coldcalls to my left, loose/passive guy in BB who's been winning a lot says "Gambol!" and calls, UTG+1 caps, and we all call.

Flop 8d 7d 3h
BB donks, UTG+1 raises, I 3!, tightish/passive guy calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls

Turn 4s
Checks to me, and I ?

*g*

How light could UTG1 be capping here? I'm assuming he raises close to 100% of his range on the flop here. Once he doesn't cap the flop, I'd think you're ahead often enough to bet the turn. In general, this looks like a bet/fold, but I think it'd be hard to fold against UTG1 if he is tricky. Seems like a standard vbet to me, though, especially because of the other two villains.

I'm probably betting a brick river too, but there aren't many cards I'd identify as a brick.

What stakes btw?

If you're going to 3 bet the flop (which I would), I don't see why you would think about doing anything other than betting the turn.

what range of hands are we giving utg+1 and TPG?

what hands does utg+1 cap pre, but only raise/call an 8hi flop with? not AA (unless his plan is to k/r the field on the turn). likely JJ-KK, AKs, AQs? and that may be a little loose.

what hands does a tight/passive guy call 3 cold with pre and call three cold again with on an 8hi flop? 99-KK, AdKd, AdQd, maybe AdJd?

what about the bb? he calls all the bets pre and then donks into the field? his range is a bit harder to define imo. we're most likely to be ahead of him.

best case scenario: utg+1 has the other JJ, TPG has 99, TT, or AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, and the bb has A8s, K8s, 9T or something.

it's difficult for me to find three hands we can value bet against in this spot with two J's. we've protected our hand on the flop, it might not be horrible to let the turn check through and see what the river brings.

idk, i'm not quite sure. tough spot.

Can someone explain what this means? He donked into me, BB donks, etc.

I know a donk is supposed to be a bad player/donkey but don't know what it means used in this context.

Short for donkbet, which is a bet made before the raiser from the previous street has had a chance to act.

donk bet: to lead out into the previous streets aggressor while out of position.

it's a bet that is out of tempo and generally considered bad because the bettor would gain more value by check/raising.

Thanks very much for the replies and the explanation about the check raise as well. It really is amazing how much there is to learn about this game.

So u bet and got raised by whom? (is it who or whom?)

Yeah, this is obviously a bad beat post :/ ([It's "by whom." I believe whom is used after prepositions as the indirect object.)

I bet, passive guy raises. What's my plan?

our plan is to see how many bets it is back to us.

if it's more than one bet back i'd feel pretty safe folding.

if we get to close the action for one bet we could probably call even though we're not getting the right price, and we rarely, if ever, have the best hand. that sounds pretty dumb, but the pot is sooo big now and we'd hate to fold the best hand the extremely rare times when TPG decides to spazz out on the turn with diamonds or whatever.

if everyone just calls TPG's raise we're getting 21:1 which isn't enough to draw to a two-outer, but when you factor in implied odds + sometimes having the best hand + tilt insurance against folding the best hand it might be worth it for your own sanity.

it would be a good enough price with implied odds if we were drawing to the nuts... as it is, t9 is a distinct possibility for BB, plus diamonds would be possible for either bb or utg. slightly more than 1 out on average id imagine

ez fold no matter what the other guys do.

flop/turn bets seem close, but i'd play it the same.

how is it a bad beat when you never at any point had the best hand?

i'm not suggesting that calling the turn after betting and getting raised is good. in fact, i'm not advocating calling at all. i'm just suggesting that it wouldn't be the worst to call getting 21:1 even though we might be drawing dead or to one out.

what if we check the turn, TPG bets, bb and utg+1 calls, what then?

^^This is a very dangerous assumption^^

+1

do i have to spell everything out for everyone? timmer do you know what "generally" means? ok, i'll spell it out.

a donk bet is considered bad because most of the time we get more value by check/raising. sometimes it's good though, for example, when the preflop aggressor is on our right and there are players in between. if we bet then the preflop aggressor is likely to raise and we can trap all the callers in between. if we check/raise in that spot we'd blow everyone out of the hand. it can also be good when we flop a strong hand and we'll be able to get more bets in the pot by donk/3betting.

a donk bet is often considered bad because when we're heads up it allows our opponent the opportunity to play their hand perfectly against our hand. calling a bet on the flop and folding unimproved on the turn when behind, or calling a bet on the flop and value raising the turn when ahead.

i could go on, but i don't want to tard up this thread anymore than i have. sorry pid.

Sorry, what's bad about this spot?

Bet turn, l,do.

When tight-passive station raises the turn, they've got it. But what do they have? If they cold-called our pf 3! with 65, they aren't tight. I think "pocket pair," and they flopped a set of sevens or eights.

Between the diamonds and the possibility that someone (BB?) has T9, we aren't drawing to clean set outs, so even at 21:1, if we get raised it's an easy fold.

Tight passive guy raises, folds to UTG+1 who calls, I fold.

River pairs the 8. UTG+1 bets, tight passive guy snap calls. Anyone guess what the two had?

I agree w alan. Not too many two pair combos to try and suck out on. Matters a little if it was the passive who called 3cold ip or in bb--wasnt sure from the post. And u would have to be sure of your read that they are not possible of doing this with like 1010 or JJ

Easy fold on the turn based on your reads... but from the river action, it seems like at least one of these players has played their hands out of character. If tight-passive guy can't raise the river, he probably didn't have a set. And if he didn't have a set, you might want to re-evaluate your read on him.

8-1 to call down is a good price or at least a break even price. you have 8 outs to 2 pair/set. You may be drawing dead but this is a capped 4 way pot and you have an overpair. There are guys I'd fold to after calling the turn but no, i always call the river once i'm there.

pretty sure the donk bet came from nl?

BB has 87, tight-passive has 33.