live 6/12.

table is pretty loose passive. i've been on a pretty good heater and perceived as the most aggressive player pf, but sometimes not getting respect postflop (getting check-raised on turn several times in a row when i missed AK and heads up).

4 limpers, i raise AJs in SB, and the BB and all limpers call. 6 players ~12sb

flop: 763 one suit of mine, two suits of another.

what's my line? if i check and see, i turn my hand face up and there is a strong likelihood that it will be two bets when it comes back to me.

if i bet out, what am i accomplishing? i'm not clearing up outs and i have poor equity. if i bet out, it does conceal my hand somewhat and if someone raises i can call the raise but fold if it is 3bet.

Check. Call one bet on the flop, fold turn UI. If it's two bets on the flop, you can still call if everyone is going to call IMO.

Betting ace high into five players is wrong especially if you aren't getting respect postflop.

As to how we fix turning our hands face up, I have no suggestion, but wouldn't mind hearing one from anyone.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the problem is here. Do you think if you do bet, it'll only come back one to you? Your bet is still a loser after this flop and six limpers. You missed... no bfd.

Maybe somebody will buy you a drink for betting their hand for them and juicing the pot?

actually i do have a back door flush draw here.

the ramifications of this against all these limpers are?

by checking flop i often will have to call two bets cold when it comes back to me. maybe this is better to just fold but i do have two overs and bdfd.

if i just bet out planning to call one more bet but not two its the same number of bets and my hand is disguised if i do hit one of my overs or bdfd. also better for my image.

Yeah, I agree with Kit. Sometimes it just doesn't matter that you're flipping the hand because there's nothing you could have done anyway.

Making a bet that sucks in equity terms in order to allow yourself to be better disguised vs. a possible raise is terrible.

I just check and call one bet, fold to two.

Our preflop equity ruled so we raised.

Our postflop equity sucks where all we can probably afford is a loosey peel.

GcluelessnoobG

Exactly. Turning our hand face up doesn't really matter because it's not as if anyone can bet/raise with junk hoping to bluff us off our "face up" hand because they've still got to consider they are up against a zillion other players. Even then, our hand isn't exactly face up if a sweet J hits on the turn.

things i disagree with

1) you seem to think that its ok to put in two bets on this flop if you bet it, but not if you dont. you can still cold call a raise on this flop if you want, its not against the rules. youd be making a pretty big mistake, though. in fact youd prefer to put zero bets in.

2) cbetting flops with air into many players does absolutely nothing for your image. most of the old nits i play with live rountinely make terrible cbets into many callers with whiffed overcards. they still look like passive nits to me and most everyone else. better image plays are laggy preflop play, and intimidation by frequently raising the big bet streets (especially against foldy TAGs).

also, if you want to make use of a loose image, you shouldnt be making these kinds of bets which will have no fold equity. the reason you try and have that kind of image to get action when you have equity edges (e.g raising utg with a tight range and still getting many callers).


3) no one cares about deception in LLHE. they'll pay you off with worse when you it even when its obvious what you have, because you correctly made the pot big preflop.

remember, one key to crushing loose live games is to always pay attention to your equity, particularly on the first two streets (turn and river are more about value betting/protection imo). when you equity changes, then play accordingly.

bdfd = back door flush draw

bfd = big f'ing deal

+1 - what he said - why in the world would you want to put money in the pot with overcards againts 6 playes and you kicker is a Jack? I would check AK here.

If you bet here, ask yourself why.

If you check here; again, ask yourself why.

I think you'll figure out the correct answer pretty quickly.

i even check AK with BDFD on this flop vs 5 players and vs 4.

vs only 3 players i think i would bet though since board is so ragged