6/12 Live, Hustler LA.

UTG+1 is the main villain in this hand - a solid regular who I believe makes a substantial part of his living from poker. We have a long history playing over the years. He's pretty tight. Rest of the table is donkeys and fish.


Hero is dealt A J in the BB - We are 7 handed at the moment.


UTG (uber donkey) raises, UTG+1 (Main Villain) 3 bets. call, fold, BTN calls, SB folds, hero knows donkey likes to cap, so hero preemptively caps (hoping to take control away from donkey and main villain on the flop). Everyone calls the cap.


FLOP: Q A 5


Hero leads out, UTG donkey raises, Main Villain 3 bets, folds to hero who folds.






AB

You're getting 22:2 (?) with TPGK + BDFD + BDSD. I don't fold the flop. I would consider folding pf versus a good, tight villain.

11:1 isn't enough to call IMO. Main villain could only have QQ, AA or AK. Maybe AQ (He's never 3 bet AQ PF ever in the years I've played him).

I'm either drawing to 3 outs or drawing near dead IMO.

BTW: I can't remember if there WAS or WAS NOT a heart on the flop - though I think there was. BDFD is worth 1 to 1.5 outs - but I say only one since if he has a set I'm losing to a potential FH.

AB

P.S: I'm thinking that I should have folded PF...

Fold PF, especially given your second post with villian's history. Why would you call if his 3! range was so tight?

Your second post in this thread reveals the problem, just as Plastiman suggests. If this Villain will only 3 bet with hands that are dominating you, then you need to fold PF. Even the donkey that calls 3 cold with a hand worse than yours may have more equity than you.

I'd drop this preflop, as you've gotten yourself into on helluva mess clearly

this is unclear and illogical to me

Preflop, he'll 3 bet with pocket pairs down to 99 - I suppose my thinking was, given pot size, that If he does not have AK or AA, and I hit my ace, I'm good.


Yea, it is unclear to me too at the moment. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

One of two hands I misplayed that session. Brain burp I guess.

The only reason to get involved with this hand is if the pro has a large range with which he wants to isolate the raiser. Considering the number of players taking 3 cold, it would seem that this is a poor play, the 3bettor is too good to try that at this table and a fold is clearly correct. The mistake of calling 3 or 4 bets with a poor hand is small compared to the bets that you lose by hitting your hand, kinda, and then playing it to the river.

A lot of people say "Well, it is going to get capped anyway so I might as well do it." I always feel that they have "cheated" me out of the infor mation that I would have gotten had they just limped back to the original bettor.

Even though UTG is a Donkey does he still raise good hands PF or a really wide range?

This would be enough for me to fold this one PF.

If you are that dead on with your read go with it.

Frond: Donkey would raise a really wide range.

Yea, I almost folded PF. Raising is better than calling IMO - but here, folding is prolly best. PF, the pro has a much wider range than AA,QQ, AK - but AA, QQ, AK is his range based on flop action.


RESULTS:



AB

AB, what range do you think UTG+1 3-bets preflop? I'm still not clear why you think capping is better than calling, and what you think "taking control from donkey & villain" does for either value or playability or anything else really.

If the pro never 3-bets AQ, capping AJ is really really bad. Fold.

Also, if he never 3-bets AQ, and is playing 6-12 at Hustler, he's not as good as you think he is.

Not sure how "good" he is, but is tight. I know I can push him off hands - that was part of my impetus for capping PF...

Also, when I capped PF with AJs, I was thinking he might have 3 bet with AQ, and maybe even AJ - probably 88+...

By I reevaluated as I thought more about it. Then in discussing the hand with him later, mentioning I wasn't sure if he's 3 bet pre with AQ, he was pretty emphatic that he wouldn't