First orbit, no read on MP1, MP2 is lagtardish fish. I would normally fold 97s to a normal MP2 raise when next to act with several more behind me, but knew he was a very loose raiser, so I took a flyer, hoping for at least one of the blinds to come along. That didn't happen, but as you'll see, i connected with the flop so I played on. I'm looking for input on playing flopped oesd's with laggy play in front of me...thanks as always.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9, 7.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero calls, 4 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K, 8, T (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 raises, [color=#CC3333]Hero ?

Preflop I'm probably too nitty, but I fold. Our position to the raiser sucks, we haven't confirmed that there is gonna be a lot of players in this pot, etc. If I was in late position with a bunch of people already in for 2 I'd probably play this. Yours truly, Mr. Nitty.

I think I'd just coldcall the flop. I might 3bet to get a free card (plus we're probably break-even equity wise), but I'm thinking here it might be nicer if we hit the turn to have MP1 possibly lead again so we can trap for lottsa bets. We're open ended so we're definitely going to the river.

GcluelessnoobG

Even if he is a loose raised, unless he is 90/70/x or something, you can't call preflop.

As played, I would probably call the flop...

Ain't nitty to fold this preflop, it's standard. Even if he's a complete LAGtard we're asking for trouble with only one other player in.

Call the flop.

you've made your bed. now it's time to sleep in it. to the river we go!

If I have a strong table image, I would call PF as well (and hope that it is folded around to the blinds of course) for three reasons.
1. I have position on the raiser
2. To any observant player who is aware of the gap concept, my cold call suggests that I have a strong hand as well.
3. I play well post flop and other players notice this.

As far as post flop play goes, more things need to be considered here.

1. What is your table image?
2. How often does the lagtard showdown?

If your table image is good (meaning you have shown down strong hands and you are not playing too many hands or taking weak hands to the river) AND the lagtard is capable of folding AND you think that you can get it heads up with lagtard then I would actually 3bet this flop, trying to both get MP1 to fold and to get a free look at the river. I think by betting into the raiser in a .5/1 game, MP1 is most likely holding a weak made hand considering his PF limp and wants to see where he is at (it is also possible that he expected lagtard to raise so he can 3bet, but I think that is less likely here). If the above conditions are all there in regards to the lagtard, then we can 3 bet and try for a free card. At least I would. If it comes back capped by MP1, then that's a risk I am willing to take on a draw like this one, and I would have to continue to the river which I plan on doing anyway. Playing draws aggressively in position as well as playing strong made hands aggressively in position makes for a powerful combination that is sure to get you paid off on your made hands.

What I think is more likely though, that if we do 3bet in this spot, then lagtard will be capping it which I wouldn't like, so my most likely play here is to just call. I don't care if I announce my draw by flat calling the flop raise, it will still get paid off if I hit in this level game. Not to mention the fact that it is very likely that my opponents will still have no idea where I am at if I just flat call the flop.

If the lagtard always shows his hand down after raising PF, then automatically break out the calling station within you, and turn on the heat if you hit your hand.

guys you have 97s which is an underdog to ANY TWO CARDS preflop. seriously, fold preflop.

except for 86s...hehehe

I would only play in a situation that I felt like I had a significant post flop edge in.

I am not going to follow a blanket strategy and fold 97s everytime I am in that situation. I think it would be wrong to do that.

In my experience raising for free card does not often work.
Preflop is a fold, but post-flop you have odds to call the flop.

Now if the turn is a blank and you have to put in four bets to stay in that is bad news because your implied odds may be somewhat marginal.

simple fold this preflop you do not know whats going to happen behind you yet. If you know this guy is LAG then it is likely that a button player may 3 pop this and charge you more.
Post flop now that you have seen the flop and have position I am not just one to call off my chips and wait to make the nuts before raising. Let pit a little pressure on the LAG and raise here. If you miss you can take a free bee on the turn.

PF is pretty bad, but once you see the flop, you're off to see the river.

If you can get a freebie, 3-bet, but if not, just call and hang on to your seat.

lags tend not to give free cards. i'd actually say you're about as likely to see the "cap and lead" line here....

I think you give your opponents far to much credit to suggest that they are even thinking about your hand range here.

There are times to play 97s, with a raiser and a coldcaller in MP, this is not one of them.

Postflop you have very, very little fold equity. This hand is getting shown down and you don't have the equity to 3-bet profitably. Call, spike, raise or call, don't spike and fold.

As everyone else said, fold preflop. You can limp on the button with this hand after 4-5 limpers, if you are pretty sure the blinds will not raise. You don't want to call raises with it preflop.

Having called preflop, now you need to get to the river as cheaply as possible with your draw.

I guess I'm a supernit...I'm not even sure I'd call with 98s (or even T9s) here. I could probably go further, but my coldcall range with no limpers to pad the pot is almost nonexistant.

Edit: I meant preflop. As for postflop, calling sounds good to me, as most LAGtards will cap you if you 3-bet.

Yes I did and here we go.....

They were and I did.

See above.

Agreed that this is 99% a bad call PF, but as I said in OP, I took a flyer this particular hand to see what would happen, as much for experience as anything, for better or for worse.

I 3bet the flop figuring I might get HU w/ MP2, and if not, I was getting chips in with my 33ish% equity. MP1 and MP2 just called.

Turn is the 9 3 players (7.5BB)

MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero ?

it probably makes little to no difference what you do in this spot as long as you dont fold

sometimes when you 3 bet the other guy folds and all your pair outs are good and you win with a pair of 9's

sometimes the LAG caps when you're HU and then you miss and have to fold

sometimes you get a free card


none of this is really quantifiable with any certainty so if you feel like gambling then 3 bet otherwise call

Takes a free one and calls a bet on the river...?

I'm not even sure I'd call the river if MP1 does the betting. He probably has a king; limped preflop, donked the flop. If I check behind, and the action goes MP1 checks, MP2 bets, would a raise be spew to try and push MP1 off the hand? I think it would be, but I'd want another opinion.

I'd probably bet/fold the turn and try for a free showdown.

g:

Woah, just woah! Fold preflop. As played, call down until the river misses then fold there. Play 400 hands to win it back.

This hand is a level?

No, if level means "joke", its not. Since you grunched, you probably now know that I was aware that this is a PF fold, but I chose to play it for my own personal experience, and to try to get HU w/ MP2. The hand evolved from there, so hence the post. Think of this as one of those hands you accidentally raise when you meant to fold!

After such a spewy PF play, do you really think I could do that here.

MP1 checking screamed weak, and Mr. Lag had disappeared more or less, so I thought a bet might end this nonsense right here, but alas...

Turn: (8.25 BB) 9 (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) Q (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero ?

Again, I know I'm not supposed to be here, but since I am, what's the best play to win what's become a big pot?

I'm trying to think of a hand that beats you that might fold to a bet and about all I can come up with is AT. I'd check and expect to lose.

Please explain the above.

Just re-read this and realized I wasn't being very clear.

atcjhall, when you said you wanted to get heads up with MP2, what did you mean? Did you think cold-calling preflop was likely to get it heads up, or were you saying that you were hoping to get him heads up later on in the hand?

Based on earlier hands that I had seen of MP2, I felt he was raising very light, and I thought PF that 97s was enough for me, in this instance, to speculate a little, (ok, alot). If I caught a piece of the flop, I'd reevaluate going on. Once I saw the flop action, I wanted to push MP1 out of the hand, cause I felt like either:

a. I get HU w/ MP2 and all my 7 and 9 outs might then be good, or

b. I pad the pot 3 ways w/ the OESD.

I was pretty sure MP1 was betting a weak K, and I wasn't going to win a showdown unimproved. Thought the flop raise might buy a free card, which it did, but then I paired and wasn't sure if I wanted the free card or not!

I think that's my biggest question. I thought about taking the freebie, but I decided to rep the set of 9's and maybe win it right there.

Q: Good or bad decision?

And I still had the OESD, although the 9 sorta screwed me if MP1 had JQ. I was just trying to find a way to win the pot.