I think this statement needs to be appended with the realization that both TN and HEM ended up getting gobbled up by CardRunners - who use the programs as "loss leaders" to get you to join their affiliate programs or pull in subscriptions to their training programs at twice the price.

And with more of the programming for those products being outsourced now, it will be interesting to see if they evolve the same as a program managed by it's poker playing creator.

A yearly fee would be way better for most people. Its like buyin a license for your anti-virus.

SaT @ $120/year would be a good price. You have the guaranteed of people purchasing for a full year and they know they wont need to pay every month. Its just easier for most people to be done with it rather then pay every month over and over.

i was unaware of all of this. i dont really know what the "loss leaders" program is. and it is very interesting that the coding has been outsourced. ive always preferred PT3 anyway


well the subscription automatically re-bills. you dont have to do anything. but the yearly option is now available. we'll see how the pricing works out for both me and you guys. id rather spend my time making the program the best it can possibly be and just charging more, thats more interesting to me than supporting a million users and have no time to make a quality product. honestly these complaints almost spurned me to raise prices

I should mind my own business but this is completely false

I checked back in this thread today out of interest. Would just like to point out a simple observation - btw this is unbiased, as I already stated I will not be buying as I only use for hotkeys (and what's more I'm playing 2nl).

However - one thing I have noticed is the level of support Greg has provided in this thread for most users, I only found this software in the last month or so, but every time a user has had a problem, Greg has been there with a very quick and complete solution where a solution exists.

It's things like this that make the difference in start ups. If that level of support is provided for free, It's scary to think what level of great support paid subscribers will get from the developer using this software :-)

I hope from a support point of view this software continues to be the Pokerstars of the poker utility world

I'd probably pay for this, but not if my site (RedKings, an Ongame site) isn't already set up automatically for me. Pay a decent price AND do some work? Hell naw. Better pay some microlevel Ongame grinder to fix it for you imo

adding new sites is #1 on my list

if a euro player is willing to do a teamviewer/skype with me then i might be able to add iPoker and OnGame. might take more time than someone is willing though, the CustomSiteCreator is probably quicker than me adding official support

right now Cake2.0 is proving difficult to support, they are blocking things that i wouldnt expect

Carbon Poker looks definitely doable from my first playmoney session

Hi Greg I can't make it work with Ongame(Betfair). There is new Java based client instead of Flash based one.
I tried to create my custom setings but the problem is I can't make resizing to work properly. It cuts the table instead of resizing
Default table:


Table after resizing:

"$15/mth isn't much"

There is truth to this statement.

However! It's not as simple as that, because there are other programs which are just as valuable (imo) and when you add them up it's not as cheap as "$15/mth".

• HEM/PT3
• TN
• a table scanner such as TST or others
• coaching sites
• SAT
• possibly buying HHs from source like PTR

So add those up and you have a healthy expense as a poker player. I'm pretty sure most microstakes players do not win enough to cover that. And I'd reckon that this expense is a fairly high % of any small stakes player's winrate.

So when people are saying it's expensive, it's not that they cannot forego 3 McDeals a month, there's a bigger picture.

I'm from the UK and I bought the yearly licence. A bit disappointed that it added a 20% tax onto it as normally whenever I buy anything I just pay the asking price (referring to other poker software such as HM and TN). Wondering why you didn't just use Paypal?

One other thing, I am under the impression that this is a yearly recurring payment? If so I have no idea how to cancel the next one. I would much prefer rather to buy again a year later than have a payment automatically taken.

Anyway, I bought it like I said I would. Hope you make some money out of this and maybe sort out this tax thing.

Hey, you can try to let the client autotile the tables to the size you want (so, for example 6 tiles) and then run stackandtile. It worked for me.

Drivo,

you got SAT to work for the new Ongame java client?

greg, are u gonna put up a paypal option for payment?

moneybookers? moneta? webmoney?

No I can't. The problem is I have 2 monitors there isn't any option to set the size of new table. You can just let the software to tile all tables but it auto fill my both monitors. I use only one bigger to play, the small one I have lobby+HM+winamp etc. + I have to overlap tables on my 26 LCD (12 tables) cause with new fonts they can't be too small

thanks. i was not aware of the tax, my test orders had no tax applied. i've put in a question to my payment provider. maybe it has something to do with international orders. ill let you know when i find out

i didnt use paypal because their integration system is difficult, they change settings without notice, and their customer support is non existent. also, its difficult to cancel subscriptions through paypal. if you go to the second link in your receipt email, you are taken to a page where you can cancel your subscription or change payment method.


i've used www.fastspring.com for payments, they are popular among small software startups, and they advertised that paypal was one of their options they accepted. however i found out that it was unavailable for recurring subscriptions, because of the poor way paypal handles subscriptions. so alas, no

right now i'm sticking with what i have. i dont konw how to use recurring payments for those methods

ill look into it when i get a chance. once i do, if you need an extension for the trial then let me know. i'm trying to get cake and carbon working first. can you manually click the border of the window and resize it yourself? then SaT won't have to mess with it again

I can't resize it. I can restore it to default size but when I try to make it small again it is a big mess:


There is no betpot for Ongame so there would be a bunch of regs that are willing to pay for betpot+ resize/placement that would work with their new client cause now it is not possible to multitable there especially that there is no timebank there...
I know that you are from US so I can give you details via skype/mikogo if it helps to fix it.

yeah, the provider is required to collect tax for european countries. however, there is an option that i needed to set to either collect tax ON TOP (default) or to have the tax absorbed in the price. i've changed it to the latter, although that doesnt help you now. whats the best way to re-imburse you?

Thank you for coming back to me. I found out how stop recurring payments but have to admit that it could be clearer. Don't worry about reimbursing. As long as you've changed it so it doesn't look like a hidden charge its better for u.

Cheers

greg,

FYI Paypal does handle recurring payments - I have two subscriptions to online services. How it's set up I wouldn't know, but I'd imagine you'd get more customers if Paypal was available since everyone has an account and you don't need to set up yet another payment solution.

are you sure? but thanks anyway, yeah i would be just as surprised about the hidden tax. ill probably put up a FAQ on which link to follow to cancel

oh yes, i know paypal handles recurring subscriptions. i spent a lot of time investigating paypal first, that was my default payment solution to use. integrating and automating things into SaT was difficult, theres no one to talk to, the only help you get is on their forums where the support team post conflicting information. subscription end-of-period statuses were sent, then were removed, then magically reappeared for some people. i wouldve preferred paypal but at this point, it would be too much work to set them up as another solution. i chose fastspring because i thought i would be able to accept paypal as well, but as i found out, thats only for one-time purchases



i will be working on getting Cake2.0, Carbon, and OnGame support. no timeframe but its in progress

Cool

Merge is ez
i managed to make an site layout without a problem, it took me about 10mins since it was my 1st try.

I'll say no GL This is quite much and little greedy dude.
I feel a bit exploited for testing
And there will be concurrent program released in upcoming months