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GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

12-06-2011 , 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat3392
If I buy flopzilla/cardrunners EV and end up formatting my laptop and putting a different operating system(XP in a virtual machine on a linux distribution) will the hardware code thingo for the registration still work?
You can just mail support for a new key.
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12-06-2011 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhand
Hi scylla.
Great software, I LOVE to play around with it.
I'm having some problems however with examining complex scenarios that require very large trees.
The results in sub branches that are very rarely reached (about once every 100,000 hands or less) are pretty inaccurate.
If I run the same calculation twice in are row, the results for these rarely reached sub branches fluctuate quite heavily,
even if I let the software make 100 million simulations per calculation.
I feel I could get much more accurate results by increasing the number of simulations.
But the software does only allow for a maximum of 100 million simulations. Why is that?
I'd be happy if you could remove that restriction.
I'd like to do 1 billion or 10 billion simulations or maybe even more because why not.
No real reason, I can make that number larger if you want that.
Sounds very time consuming though.
Isn't it possible to make some changes in your tree so the rare parts are reached more frequently?
Please send your savefile to support and I'll have a look.
Just add a note to the decision/action where you want more runs.
To add a note, move your mouse over it and press Alt+N.
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12-06-2011 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhand
The results in sub branches that are very rarely reached (about once every 100,000 hands or less) are pretty inaccurate.
I understand a reach for perfection but if you have a branch that's reached 1/100000 the actual results of that branch are going to have a pretty small impact on the EV of the hand (or your bankroll).

When I make limit holdem trees, I usually ignore everything that goes beyond one raise on the river, I've noticed that what ever happens beyond that has extremely little effect on the EV's on earlier street decisions (changing any assumptions a bit -villain's range to include one more suited connector, or changing the way they play their draws by a percentage point or two- will have a much bigger impact, and as you can't really pinpoint those to 1%, worrying about a hundredth of a bb is wasting time imo).
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12-06-2011 , 11:36 AM
Actually that's a good point.
When lines become very rarely reached, you're probably better off putting in a checkdown at that point.
It will keep your trees simpler to read.

Still, if you send me that savefile with a note in it, as instructed above, I'll see if there's room for improvement.
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12-06-2011 , 01:19 PM
Okay, I sent you a file to support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com

You guys are certainly right, investing a lot of time to get a bit more accuracy
in situations you'll almost never find yourself in has very little value.
Then again, who says I have to spend my time with this software efficiently?
Sometimes it is just fun to find out what the exact EV (or a very precise approximation) of a certain hand in a certain spot is.
Even if that doesn't improve my poker play at all.
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12-06-2011 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhand
Okay, I sent you a file to support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com

You guys are certainly right, investing a lot of time to get a bit more accuracy
in situations you'll almost never find yourself in has very little value.
Then again, who says I have to spend my time with this software efficiently?
Sometimes it is just fun to find out what the exact EV (or a very precise approximation) of a certain hand in a certain spot is.
Even if that doesn't improve my poker play at all.
Ok, I've had a look at the file and one tip that might help you out is a trick to make one player appear to be multiple players.
See here for instructions in the concept for the new manual: http://www.cardrunners-ev-calculator.com/multiple.html

Basically you use a delete action to artificially boost one player's range so that he appears to be (for example) 3 players.

A big advantage of this trick is that the tree is now heads up, which will make all results mathematically correct. Also, the processing time will be something like 0.3 seconds.





See here for the concept manual as a whole:
http://www.cardrunners-ev-calculator.com/Manual.html

I still need to proofread it, so it might contain errors and other horrible mistakes.
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12-06-2011 , 03:57 PM
Yeah the delete function is really great!
I have already used it a lot to simulate complex situations.
You can come up with pretty good approximations at lightning speed if you do it right, I totally agree.
However, I'm currently more interested in analyzing sophisticated scenarios where every player
is trying to maximize his EV, not just Hero trying to play optimally against given opponent strategies.
For that purpose, I found more simulations to be indispensable.
I have a new i7-980 that is hungry for 1 billion simulations, so I beg you please give me with the next update.
Why wouldn't you?

Edit: for equity calculations I have been using Equilab for a long time.
You don't have to tell this program how many simulations you want it to run.
You simply tell it to start calculating.
Then it will run Monte Carlo simulations until you tell it to stop.
The longer you let it simulate, the closer the numbers get to the mathematically correct solution.
That's really cool imo, I wish CardrunnersEV would work this way too.

Last edited by Skyhand; 12-06-2011 at 04:20 PM.
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12-07-2011 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Yes ... I can't find the text export function anymore either.
There's a lot of formats, but not the old one.
I'll ask them and otherwise I'll just have to write a new import function.

that would be really great,will not play w/hm2 until this prob is solved xD
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12-13-2011 , 02:52 PM
Hi, scylla.
Check support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com please.
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12-13-2011 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preferansist
Hi, scylla.
Check support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com please.
Just did.
I check my mail several times a day.
If you have some trouble reaching support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com for some reason, then please try the backup adres crev_flopzilla@hotmail.com.
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12-13-2011 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronto
that would be really great,will not play w/hm2 until this prob is solved xD
Ok, I've asked and they'll be adding the old HEM format to the list of export formats. I can't give you a timeline though.
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12-13-2011 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preferansist
Hi, scylla.
Check support@cardrunners-ev-calculator.com please.
Ok, I've sent you your key to both adresses you've sent from from both the support adresses.
Please let me know if you still haven't received your key.
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12-14-2011 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Ok, I've asked and they'll be adding the old HEM format to the list of export formats. I can't give you a timeline though.
Any hopes on getting the PT3 format working?
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12-14-2011 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasita
Any hopes on getting the PT3 format working?
I expect to get around to that in January.
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12-15-2011 , 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
I expect to get around to that in January.
wait for PT4 IMO
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12-15-2011 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genher
wait for PT4 IMO
Actually, that sounds like a better idea.
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12-15-2011 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Actually, that sounds like a better idea.
The format should stay practically the same if you just parse for the important stuff.
http://http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=30402948&postcount=595
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12-16-2011 , 12:34 PM
any PLO versions?
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12-17-2011 , 03:59 PM
I have an observation with discounting an action and displaying the combos.

I used the following situation.

Preflop:

Hero - AJ

Villain - KT,QJ,T9,98

Flop is in pic below.

I've made it so Villain checks, Hero bets $10, Villain folds his flush draws, calls with mp or better, and then I want him to call half the time with QJ.

It all seems to do just that looking at the data of his flop actions. QJ is included in both the call and the fold % (it shows 11 combos in each).

However, moving to the turn action, villain shows 45 combos. This would include all the QJ hands available (minus QdJd).

So, I created an action on the river to filter out some combos, and it looks like the software is discounting the hands, but just not showing the right number of combos in the following actions. So, I wanted to see if that was just an oversight or something else I'm missing or w/e.



Thanks.
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12-17-2011 , 06:33 PM
Could you mail the savefile please?

PS: I'll probably respond tomorrow, it being saturday night and all.
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12-17-2011 , 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Could you mail the savefile please?

PS: I'll probably respond tomorrow, it being saturday night and all.
Sure thing, no problem.
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12-18-2011 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTip
I have an observation with discounting an action and displaying the combos.

I used the following situation.

Preflop:

Hero - AJ

Villain - KT,QJ,T9,98

Flop is in pic below.

I've made it so Villain checks, Hero bets $10, Villain folds his flush draws, calls with mp or better, and then I want him to call half the time with QJ.

It all seems to do just that looking at the data of his flop actions. QJ is included in both the call and the fold % (it shows 11 combos in each).

However, moving to the turn action, villain shows 45 combos. This would include all the QJ hands available (minus QdJd).

So, I created an action on the river to filter out some combos, and it looks like the software is discounting the hands, but just not showing the right number of combos in the following actions. So, I wanted to see if that was just an oversight or something else I'm missing or w/e.



Thanks.
CREV's combo toggle is a feature that was added at a later point by popular request. It does NOT account for weights, it just counts the number of possible ways that a starting hand can be dealt by looking in how many different permutations the hand passes through a node/action/condition. I'm not sure how easy it's going to be to also make it account for weights, but I'll have a look. From what I recall, it's not impossible but it's a LOT of work.
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12-19-2011 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
CREV's combo toggle is a feature that was added at a later point by popular request. It does NOT account for weights, it just counts the number of possible ways that a starting hand can be dealt by looking in how many different permutations the hand passes through a node/action/condition. I'm not sure how easy it's going to be to also make it account for weights, but I'll have a look. From what I recall, it's not impossible but it's a LOT of work.
Thanks for checking. I understand sometimes certain features aren't worth the trouble. It would certainly make the software more complete, though. In this case, I just have to couple with something like combonator or flopzilla. But...certainly CREV is the nuts either way
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12-19-2011 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTip
Thanks for checking. I understand sometimes certain features aren't worth the trouble. It would certainly make the software more complete, though. In this case, I just have to couple with something like combonator or flopzilla. But...certainly CREV is the nuts either way
Once again, I'll see if I can do anything about this.
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12-20-2011 , 04:47 AM
Let's say we have the following scenario: hu 15 bb , sb minraises 60% and calls to a shove 30% of his range, and we use cardrunner ev to calculate the optimal shoving range of BB.

I would like to know the BB optimal shoving range for various situation like this (e.g sb minraises 59%,58%,57% etc or effective stacks 16bb,17bb,18bb and so on etc etc) . Is there a way to do such a thing automatically or should I set the values each time manually?

Thanks!
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