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GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

02-02-2018 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wang
i just rebuild the tree and recalculated it.

rebuilding the tree converts the format into the newest version right?
I would expect so yes, but I can't give an absolute guarantee here, given that the tree you're referring to is from a much older version.
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02-02-2018 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortega
I do not know if this is practically possible, but would there be some way for the software to always round the combo to absolute number? Of course, keeping the frequencies as close as possible to the resolved and exploiting the nearest 0.
This would make the ranges much more real, since I believe it is humanly impossible to work with something close to the optimal ranges.
Rounding combos after the solve is very easy. Rounding during solving is a different story. We have a lot of custom requests and we will look into them after releasing the next update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ortega
An interesting implementation would be to highlight the combos of bet by value and by bluff (semi-bluff) to make clear in the range the frequencies. Especially on the river.
A challenge there would be to give a mathematical definition of when a bet is for value and when it's a bluff.
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02-02-2018 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slikkelade
Hey im pretty fishy with cardrunners ev.. Lets say im away 10 hours and want it to analyze multiple flobs. Can I do that and if yes how?
Yes, you can create a database, as described in the second video here: http://www.cardrunnersev.com/gtoplus.html. Also, you save all files that you want solved to a certain directory and then instruct GTO+ to solve all files in that directory. For that, use the folder icon in the upper right.

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02-02-2018 , 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porzingis
GTO + is just as good as PioSolver.
I'd even go as far as saying that it's actually quite a bit better. I'd like to type out a comparison, but in order to save myself some time I will just quote an earlier post of mine:





After v105 we are now offering an advanced tree builder and tree editing options. I don't think that there is much of a justification anymore. In fact, we even offer many features that other softwares either don’t offer, or ours are far more user-friendly. As for solving speed, this is similar to other products (sometimes a bit faster, sometimes a bit slower). I will just create a summary of what I feel are the most important differences. See below for that.

Other than the points below though, you can also take a look at our release videos so far: http://www.cardrunnersev.com/gtoplus.html. When watching the videos, ask yourself if those other tools offer these features. I think you will find that they either can't, or that they offer an alternative that is far more difficult to work with.

Internal analysis tools
First of all, we offer internal analysis tools whereas other tools require you to manually copy-paste ranges to other software in order to see the composition of the range. I feel that it’s just a very inconvenient way of looking at a solution, and the constant delays due to having to manually copy-paste will really get in the way of your learning curve.

Graphing tools
We offer internal graphing tools to plot basically anything versus anything. We also offer these same tools to visualize turn and river reports and aggregate reports. Other tools offer nothing other than text based output, which, again, requires copying to external programs. Most data is lost in translation here, as well as the delays getting in the way of your learning curve. You're also far less likely to run into anything by chance, given that you only get data if you have specifically requested it.

Tree navigator
Other softwares only provide line-based navigation, whereas we also offer a full extensive view of your tree.
To get to the navigator, just press TAB.
Mouse over any part of the 2D tree to get more info.

Aggregate reports
We offer aggregate reports with internal analysis tools, as well as several additional output options.

Tiny savefiles+databases
Not only do we offer the ability to store to very small savefiles (roughly 100kb for a tree), but also the ability to store multiple trees into a database, with the ability to make comparisons between those trees and to create aggregate reports. Where typically solving that many trees would take roughly 10GB of storage space, due to our method of using small savefiles, in our case this will take roughly 10MB, with no data being lost.

Recalc options
In GTO+ you can easily recalculate any turn/river subtree without needing to resolve the entire tree.

GTO+ converges to 0%
Where the other softwares often stop converging at around 0.05%, we converge all the way down to 0%.

Tree editor
We offer far more convenient methods for making edits in your trees with a full view of the entire tree. I believe in for example pio this requires text-based input.

Process all files in a directory
We offer the ability to process all files in a given directory. So, for example, you can create multiple databases of many trees that you would like solved, put them all in a directory, point GTO+ to that directory and let it solve all files in it.

Card removal
We offer an option to toggle card-removal on/off so you can easily see the effects of card removal at the push of a button

Decision editing + locking is far easier
We offer visual tools for directly editing your decisions, locking them, and re-running the solver.

Our main disadvantage is that GTO+ is relatively new and not that well known yet. So people considering a GTO solver are less likely to run into us. With us leaving beta we hope that this will change in 2018.

Last edited by scylla; 02-02-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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02-02-2018 , 07:19 AM
When is next update out?
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02-02-2018 , 07:43 AM
Does GTO+ update itself or do you have to go to the website and install new update everytime?
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02-02-2018 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Rounding combos after the solve is very easy. Rounding during solving is a different story. We have a lot of custom requests and we will look into them after releasing the next update.



A challenge there would be to give a mathematical definition of when a bet is for value and when it's a bluff.
bet is for value when the estimated equity is greater than > .5 and bluffing in any other case
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02-02-2018 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mejormus
bet is for value when the estimated equity is greater than > .5 and bluffing in any other case


Or how about if EV is higher if bet is called => Value?
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02-02-2018 , 07:38 PM
I fully appreciate that you are very busy on GTO+, but it would be awesome if you could please include backdoor straight draw as an extra filter in the postflop condition menu.

Thanks !!!
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02-02-2018 , 10:20 PM
[IMG][/IMG]



I solved multiple flops separately and then later realized how I could use the advanced options to analyze how all flops affect both players' ranges. However, I don't know how to add all these flops into a single database. Of course, I can reenter every single flop and then solve it again but that would take a lot of time. There must be a way to combine all the solved flops, right? I can only add one of them by clicking "add current tree" but I want to add several solved trees.
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02-02-2018 , 10:39 PM
How do you import flops from file at advanced options in Run solver? Thanks
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02-03-2018 , 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Federer20
When is next update out?
Probably in about a week or so.
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02-03-2018 , 05:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blunderer
I fully appreciate that you are very busy on GTO+, but it would be awesome if you could please include backdoor straight draw as an extra filter in the postflop condition menu.

Thanks !!!
Ok, I'll see what I can do.
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02-03-2018 , 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuMind
[IMG][/IMG]



I solved multiple flops separately and then later realized how I could use the advanced options to analyze how all flops affect both players' ranges. However, I don't know how to add all these flops into a single database. Of course, I can reenter every single flop and then solve it again but that would take a lot of time. There must be a way to combine all the solved flops, right? I can only add one of them by clicking "add current tree" but I want to add several solved trees.
We can consider adding this for future releases.
However, for the moment there is no dedicated feature for this.
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02-03-2018 , 05:32 AM
Hi scylla, amazing software you’ve got there.

There are a couple of features that would be very handy:

1. Actions EV comparison. Pio like comparison, that shows which hands lose most EV if played differently.
2. Ability to limit the number of raises on any given street. I know i can manually delete the branches, but that’s time consuming. “Limit the number of raises to X on the flop/turn/river” option when building a tree would help a lot.
3. Slider for range editing. When I want to bet 50% or 100% on the flop, I’d like to choose that with a slider. I have to click every combo for now. Time consuming and exhaustive again.

Thanks!

Last edited by CafeDelMar; 02-03-2018 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Typos
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02-03-2018 , 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mejormus
bet is for value when the estimated equity is greater than > .5 and bluffing in any other case
Unfortunately equity is not an accurate method for measuring the value of a hand. It's good for getting a ballpark estimate, but it's easily possible for two hands with the same equity to have a drastically different EV. For example, see the pic below for a plot of EV versus equity. In the blue circles are two hands with the same equity, but a different EV. The blue line indicates what you would expect the EV to be, if solely looking at equity. Although equity is a great quantity for educational purposes, and has various uses, it's not a good enough indicator to figure out if a hand is being bet for value or as a bluff.

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02-03-2018 , 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zobags
Or how about if EV is higher if bet is called => Value?
Yes, but what is value?
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02-03-2018 , 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerboy1606
How do you import flops from file at advanced options in Run solver? Thanks
If you have a set of flops that you like, then you can use "Export flops to file" to store that list of flops to file. To use that same set again for a different database, use "Import flops from file".

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02-03-2018 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slikkelade
Does GTO+ update itself or do you have to go to the website and install new update everytime?
At the moment you need to go to the website, however, we can look into auto-updating for later releases.
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02-03-2018 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Yes, but what is value?
Maybe implement the feature just on the river, where it's really clear.
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02-03-2018 , 07:07 PM
Hi Scylla,
Here some recommendations for future releases:
(Excuse my English)

1. Have the option to save modified trees (with stacks included). So that they can be imported automatically so that it is only necessary to enter the ranges (which can also be saved) and the board.

2. When we add several boards and several trees in the database solution mode, automatically solve each board with each tree.

Example:
Input: Board1, Board2, Board3, Tree1, Tree2 ...
Output: Board1 on Tree1, Board2 on Tree1, Board3 on Tree1, Board1 on Tree2, Board2 on Tree2, Board3 on Tree2…

- If possible, expand this option to calculate also for several ranges.

3. In the data (that we can copy and paste to export) add a column with the description of the hand (set, two pair ... oesd, gutshot).

4. In the database distribution graph, if I lock an action for player 1, add the frequency of actions for player 2.

5. Add that if the player has bet more than a certain % of his original stack, he is automatically all in.

Questions:
- Is it possible to visualize the solved part of the database while still solving the other cases in the background?
- Is it possible to make scripts to automatically export the solutions to excel?

Thanks for the incredible work.
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02-03-2018 , 09:11 PM
Struggling to understand why I cant get the results I want.
I'm looking at various sets of flops where villain checks 100% of the time but no matter how I try to set it up it doesn't always work that way.

Here's the tree:


And I accept the changes:




Player 1 is donking 1%, What am I doing wrong?
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02-04-2018 , 04:37 AM
Which folder are the flop exported to?
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02-04-2018 , 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker
Struggling to understand why I cant get the results I want.
I'm looking at various sets of flops where villain checks 100% of the time but no matter how I try to set it up it doesn't always work that way.

Here's the tree:


And I accept the changes:




Player 1 is donking 1%, What am I doing wrong?
Edits that are made will not affect the trees in your database. So you will need to rebuild the database after having made the edits. I can't be sure without seeing exactly what you're doing, but I think that's where the problem is.
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02-04-2018 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTree
Hi Scylla,
Here some recommendations for future releases:
(Excuse my English)

1. Have the option to save modified trees (with stacks included). So that they can be imported automatically so that it is only necessary to enter the ranges (which can also be saved) and the board.

2. When we add several boards and several trees in the database solution mode, automatically solve each board with each tree.

Example:
Input: Board1, Board2, Board3, Tree1, Tree2 ...
Output: Board1 on Tree1, Board2 on Tree1, Board3 on Tree1, Board1 on Tree2, Board2 on Tree2, Board3 on Tree2…

- If possible, expand this option to calculate also for several ranges.

3. In the data (that we can copy and paste to export) add a column with the description of the hand (set, two pair ... oesd, gutshot).

4. In the database distribution graph, if I lock an action for player 1, add the frequency of actions for player 2.

5. Add that if the player has bet more than a certain % of his original stack, he is automatically all in.

Questions:
- Is it possible to visualize the solved part of the database while still solving the other cases in the background?
- Is it possible to make scripts to automatically export the solutions to excel?

Thanks for the incredible work.
Point 1 is already possible.
For that just change the ranges/board/rake/etc, go to "Build tree", go to the "Rebuild" tab and click on "Rebuild with current settings".

Point 4 is tricky, because even with player 1's actions locked, there's still multiple locations where player 2 gets to act.
We do already do this in case player 1 only has a single action available for his first action.

Point 5 is basically already implemented.
I'd need to check the code, but I believe that we say that if player 2 makes a bet that almost puts him all-in, he just actually goes all-in.

As for the other features, we can consider them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTree
Questions:
- Is it possible to visualize the solved part of the database while still solving the other cases in the background?
It's something that can be done, although performing calculations in the background while the users gets to make all sorts of changes to the interface has the risk of causing conflicts. It's usually best to keep things simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTree
Questions:
- Is it possible to make scripts to automatically export the solutions to excel?
The problem there would be which data would need to be exported.
Just about any user would have custom requirements for that.
It would be difficult to set this up in a manner that pleases everyone.
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