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GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

02-15-2017 , 08:52 PM
is there somewhere in the near future a new release with preflop + flop subsets equilibium solver?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-16-2017 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji
is there somewhere in the near future a new release with preflop + flop subsets equilibium solver?
Generally speaking, if new features are added, then those will be made public when they are released. There's no prior anouncements. So unfortunately I can not answer your question.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-17-2017 , 01:45 AM
Scylla have u fixed the issue with the hand matrix editor, i can't afford to buy a new laptop with screen res of 1920 x 1080...
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-17-2017 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoxgsr96
Scylla have u fixed the issue with the hand matrix editor, i can't afford to buy a new laptop with screen res of 1920 x 1080...
Ok, I'll post a fix on Sunday with some minor bugfixes.
I think the easiest workaround here will be to accept input if ENTER is pressed.
From what I can tell, that should get us around the issue.
Should I have overlooked something, then please let me know.

Cheers,

Scylla

Last edited by scylla; 02-17-2017 at 05:46 AM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-17-2017 , 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Generally speaking, if new features are added, then those will be made public when they are released. There's no prior anouncements. So unfortunately I can not answer your question.
I wonder if its possible to solve this via scripting, actually there is the lack of an equilibrium solver command in the scripting editing mode plus the option to feed information through different files/trees. Are you using Fictitious Play or Counterfactual Regret Minimization to compute the equilibrium state?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-18-2017 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenji
I wonder if its possible to solve this via scripting, actually there is the lack of an equilibrium solver command in the scripting editing mode plus the option to feed information through different files/trees. Are you using Fictitious Play or Counterfactual Regret Minimization to compute the equilibrium state?
Currently scripting commands are only focussed on EV runs and such, but we can look into adding the equilibrium solver for later releases. As for algorithms, unfortunately it's beyond the scope of support to discuss those.

Last edited by scylla; 02-18-2017 at 05:57 AM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-18-2017 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Ok, I'll post a fix on Sunday with some minor bugfixes.
I think the easiest workaround here will be to accept input if ENTER is pressed.
From what I can tell, that should get us around the issue.
Should I have overlooked something, then please let me know.

Cheers,

Scylla
Sounds great can't wait for the update/fix i'm really looking forward to it.

Also do u mind posting a link to it in this thread when u are finished with the update and have it ready

Ty scylla :3
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-19-2017 , 06:01 AM
Hi Scylla,

I have a maybe stupid question. If I want to edit(node lock) a range at the turn or river,
I am not able to run the equilibrium tool again. It sais "Unable to find entry point for the last board phase" How does it work at the turn or river, if i want to change a range and run the solver again?

Regards
Zoty
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-19-2017 , 07:01 PM
Hi,

How to make a Hand Condition to pick only Gutshots without a pair?

tks
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-20-2017 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoty79
Hi Scylla,

I have a maybe stupid question. If I want to edit(node lock) a range at the turn or river,
I am not able to run the equilibrium tool again. It sais "Unable to find entry point for the last board phase" How does it work at the turn or river, if i want to change a range and run the solver again?

Regards
Zoty
If you have a hand that started at the flop, but have now entered a turn, then the hand may actually start at the turn at multiple entry points. The solver will need to know which line it needs to calculate. You can tell it this by setting a checkpoint at the entry decision at the turn. See the screenshot below. To set a checkpoint, press F10 and click on the decision:

GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-20-2017 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetu
Hi,

How to make a Hand Condition to pick only Gutshots without a pair?

tks
For this, set a condition "gutshot+highcard".
See the savefile below for an example.
You can import this savefile by pressing Ctrl+I.

Code:
[CardRunnersEV v3.3.3]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[lKkiT#DEd?U-!1MA4enC5TOUiwTJ1L1MT@iwmj?Kfy1pgOt@vgDUj0c_.0TEZj9Pf+#fo6]
[+xaxkW9#=2#*(UhO!e)P4z=B3dwW*4erTmO_2X=9J*w42&sqe.b?MBO0UU$byTMNch2_lG]
[hgKMn-7Dj2Xf0S.91SkoXD9PqJtq#LY$MmM!15KVHHSfnL$-Jv#wh8yc55wP0bsdTv6@tm]
[#A?krX&AhrK+0!6Ul@BJd#0BVK!i6U2mKv1F4jC7Y$G3&LMNfvIbRzvWP!vl$cA_oP-Z.z]
[$wJMWSvRhY6DHDVfPbLuCgx9IFGW&rTJ3-6xQZ#j+#TboE-m7@&&Jd!QEA487erqwIlJIt]
[GjC#w7Xa+_Rfkpro_-u0nHM2c#fPgAj7WTp.YK4ISofLo770Ya-!Wl!7eGio-XxhU2T&$&]
[d6!jmE-dXTH7+p5&g+#jmXK2hAXFch+3k+v2TYNR$@Cg+EQtK@dXVbPh1q!NNR?BW8EXtH]
[SbZvY4CCKXcUkCoZ5LKRc$be3!@Pj2mUzxLkKrN7uVFSR6#Q5jV+fr1x&11e&S5SKZx.OM]
[WvF4jVF-+@Fz@gOkE0bMI7pFrUxJ1-diu3NRhoSr9V1FvcnTpPVa!+cCJ2xhc1GfDPX7N@]
[xj4tEWuuCG9R1xhu_7Es65OEmSDDlB8y$YsV--zPn5xNjx+kR0NCLffA1Lu-&kwNdvM.d1]
[z6s9RU3o-3EZ1ICL#sVkeEADdh76l0Qikgx&Z#@B5i6!L1jsT8e3_Z4x_KcItfhWfZlBXd]
[TYIWVTnFT@0tT78h?B@$zvImv0F$_D?VMlMO7Ss.1cZ+7E#&.GJO0FZLn5eOCyyrXxop$#]
[bbtdh_b$D@aP1KuPGJojzBoI-kWuOPM43I0sR3gk8.MPBzTz93vT-eeB?MLKVK2XGr5$W$]
[Z166tG$qk]

Should you want to select gutshot+highcard with the analysis tool, then this is possible as well. For this, right-click "no made hand" to fix it and only show highcards. After that, you can select the gutshots in the "gutshot" stat.




PS:
It appears I made the savefile with v333.
See the next post for a download link.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoxgsr96
Sounds great can't wait for the update/fix i'm really looking forward to it.

Also do u mind posting a link to it in this thread when u are finished with the update and have it ready

Ty scylla :3
Ok, it took a bit longer than expected, but see below for a link. Input in the analysis tool is now also accepted when pressing ENTER. From what I can tell everything seems to be working, but I'll take a closer look on different versions of Windows later today. Please let me know if you run into any issues, otherwise I will post this update on the website somewhere this week.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/c...333_64bit_.msi
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-20-2017 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Ok, it took a bit longer than expected, but see below for a link. Input in the analysis tool is now also accepted when pressing ENTER. From what I can tell everything seems to be working, but I'll take a closer look on different versions of Windows later today. Please let me know if you run into any issues, otherwise I will post this update on the website somewhere this week.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/c...333_64bit_.msi
Amazing thank you scylla just tested it and everything works fine amazing update for 1376 screen res users, love the enter feature.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-21-2017 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Ok, it took a bit longer than expected, but see below for a link. Input in the analysis tool is now also accepted when pressing ENTER. From what I can tell everything seems to be working, but I'll take a closer look on different versions of Windows later today. Please let me know if you run into any issues, otherwise I will post this update on the website somewhere this week.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/c...333_64bit_.msi
Yo scylla, i think i found some issues with the update actually

The scroll bar still won't scroll all the way down to reach the buttons sometimes , so you have to use the enter key. But when you hit the enter key the thing automatically locks the custom range and it doesn't give u the option to turn it off within the hand matrix. Not really that big of an issue just annoying coz u have to keep right clicking it.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-21-2017 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoxgsr96
Yo scylla, i think i found some issues with the update actually

The scroll bar still won't scroll all the way down to reach the buttons sometimes , so you have to use the enter key. But when you hit the enter key the thing automatically locks the custom range and it doesn't give u the option to turn it off within the hand matrix. Not really that big of an issue just annoying coz u have to keep right clicking it.
Yes, I had a couple of options in offering a workaround here. Typically I would assume that if you edit a range and accept it, that it is intended for use with the solver. In this case auto-locking the decision would save some time+effort. An alternate approaching would be only to auto-lock if Ctrl+ENTER is pressed. A disadvantage there would be that a user would need to specifically know that he needs to use this combination. All-in-all, I think that the current solution is the best all-around way of offering this alternate way of closing the window, but it you have thoughts on this, then please let me know.

Cheers,

Scylla

Last edited by scylla; 02-21-2017 at 05:34 PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-21-2017 , 08:35 PM
Hi Scylla, can you plz explain a little bit why EV differs from PT4?

In this spot:
https://www.weaktight.com/h/58ac5100d39043364f8b46d0

PT4's AI BB Adjusted is -82

While in my model in CREV is different, can you point out why? I've also included the model below

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...70/22vsKJs.stx
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-22-2017 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
Hi Scylla, can you plz explain a little bit why EV differs from PT4?

In this spot:
https://www.weaktight.com/h/58ac5100d39043364f8b46d0

PT4's AI BB Adjusted is -82

While in my model in CREV is different, can you point out why? I've also included the model below

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...70/22vsKJs.stx
I can't really seem to download the savefile, so please provide it in a different manner, or possibly mail it to support.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-22-2017 , 08:36 AM
^ I've mailed it

Also, another question. I'd like to mod your software i.e. make a night mode. I found the files in the proper folder and modify them. The problem is with the fonts that are barely visible. Can we do something about it? Or do you tought about a night mode?

GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-23-2017 , 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
^ I've mailed it

Also, another question. I'd like to mod your software i.e. make a night mode. I found the files in the proper folder and modify them. The problem is with the fonts that are barely visible. Can we do something about it? Or do you tought about a night mode?

Ok, I'll think about it for later versions.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-23-2017 , 10:23 AM
Hi,
I have set up a spot where BTN and SB are shortstacks (5bb).
BTN shoves, SB calls, and I was wondering which hands were +EV calls.

So I set it up in CREV :

Code:
[CardRunnersEV v3.3.0]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[-PJ#3JkLG9_1iKvSalzwS5F?&aHEXx4dc#I7Hi-cfYOo.z#q5s4kYGmzg&gxoxxW-bs.rx]
[RTQFMl_=mI*(&qf#-)!Tl=!mFt&*-3qK@l7+-=uu*-b.tSg.5dcIO53WQ0ocXfQ8SIiDYc]
[XH?Q6gQL9LM9aeC50hm$&rZ.dHK&bO0-6w2CrZod-d5XU-6..m739PP9QH?NtmK2?$Dm9!]
[GC2D8Ba!@B@.uhpPsouPGMd!V.3nyLc!o9mmbf30!QszaM$NwwfiKzrXri1su81z3J2GrN]
[1yMZQhmg-WwkagDy#2+TKeil7KnI!c!A.4k2mdqgR1C5TkMkBUAqjGlZusD82N&yM6-f#q]
[yZzg5QqZxQaTFi_UVYTRTA-zS?_!@#XDh.$3!C6ZfIC7QF#9pB&fp82+SmUOTO1-5qFfQF]
[q_psV22TtlFoJtRzIxzAl7#GMey-S?pa9!.+Gw&#V_D&W3m&SYLeG+#!Hewfe#QFI.ZMI7]
[#cvVoRbHPU1MwrCOkqgNoj3QxsDJf_?PMZrzr#vq!xnxG4PSYJdh1lX@0ev2t@g6V72iix]
[lGDlZx&KyOm@&bhij9CjEbZ2bIa5-iImsjruPHKXV3$N_RX#h+-yX2.yASIjgv#dzJuCmz]
[qB2L.r869It1RHNPs&CVJF55?slde3-STnepRAWP$Gx4kZihPLZe.EaBs6L0ltFTVDj49.]
[10?a6Bs+dJ1O9jM707js6Y-s_W9Bk_+X@1ke@Y4-$_+Z.@SZhZtSqaok-wphT#hV$smm-h]
[QwSLZR9Ui$_L43LjA5V-!sTHDw?yh5Gtfi?l!@5HAL#$O9pv8hNZw?ffNeiNIE9xCEp9&F]
[mu86obk$aXEvDGDF#GT.#dQ5yxIzK3O1ukr+888wEv88XcbRR4rnNnrgy&CdAYDlOMamyh]
[bwQOYveaUPa9Ff8Et7LR2YCnM?32vsxN.sJ684DB+H3Z#mHDf+XpC?o_AZc1.M2FZ37ugf]
[!re1m?_epIj-X1kr!v+eOG_RLtYOrvemlC8SAy&B!T8!?aJiRPIMQA4wn4csjRTkKqEpjQ]
[5u5JZQ$k&iE!QqcFM988OfkxV30pDD7_Txc39csR9it9GWHNv3YNw&bOV7h-8&+Lj617Zf]
[p$y&P-Nkd6w+FnoyWmfE4wFn?NyvWO$Ekxz&XR7dBB4ZwLCQ5g7qk7&nuex62B1kCMNX1R]
[6eQoz0z_ZVGkWHbGL1nBZKF@,wA0osL$r,CFKOMo&&pviv9nggGGcNi.7MI1O9WQ+_R!fB]
[hPPOvhCMB55-O#e&3lUD.IySppf.ZI!D+fesH#TtPqlY+5T7QlLv954aT$KgJ&+.SJYwEh]
[NStaYSMIeoGb6Pja@iSdQ+cvgh$INP@C.V&TjDzCbl4FqX+aGHT9XLz+bxbh0H$i6&qpd@]
[7?B$lQ@fAYm+k+XNQzXG7N1YKop88U1gV&4H#ay8KumwWM_nUSiEo+dQf2dZwBW6em7l.7]
[sg?o8Wfrf4EKoPR24gVTIRtemm$ylyDlrOvMUL&!g3nHI1,@LeAVMft,VGhxAHj9@Nj4kV]
[zPIHxXdabqz1e@tlHX3YX-63+lbLy7po&!BCgRCq9eW00Sa7bl.Q4ljwJu-B-Oe?UCYKqE]
[fDwh@!v$z_AiWWVCkCZw4K7tdAk0&d+BlGiWUs_+!FUHU5+@zb4FSYJF6b!Ux4Z.AlawgX]
[FV2e7heclWxczhctu.J0N0aaMvlOCnY2qSkR4pr@NUSf1h8cQREX!vZLpfuxCg&Q5LD448]
[hS2RphbR`NQ`+vw-KDZu#rCkMVVGN$PCDNG3Nj+qcDkR1AHiYC?Oy8iaq$9G$21aC.myCg]
[hXwNxJCL.4v8K77Y?jSrlgFuy7g88eQiU7nYo!jTs_CV#i06ksXTtxtgsiR&K838WDHCsY]
[3gTI-zCPgBGmb0KDKk0liT3Rlv1X?#qKPKxhpFVDtlQ?8ZuJ8Q-A+&1IVrLdj7xQHyk@pJ]
[L#4oIBUlm-JXOAhMJfZtl4joY&6!U?@e6iP3sFQ@rcTj!aQN67aohbIQqVbNOZOstODGA3]
[&gJHr55MnS_O#E9LLpjk9SIttKW3WXjjd$5juD4_w6e+?kBWe8H?Yq?XFq3g+CVNFH.#l#]
[e97agAOhuSSvgjmJh4HezNP-R4w2Jy8MVD?dGAj]
So when my mouse goes on the "call" action for BB, in the pop up window, I can see the EV for calling with each one of my combos, right?

How can it be more +EV to call with AKo (3.7) than with AKs (1.98)?
and also : A9o > A9s, A7o > A7s

I thought this was due to combo removal, but for example, there very few 7x combos in Villain's ranges, so I don't get it. And such a difference between AKs and AKo...

ty

PS : Scylla, as you are in the maths and algorithms, another question : If we have a decent estimation of what our equity is vs BTN range, and a decent estimation of what our equity is vs SB range, is there any trick to make a decent estimation of our equity in this 3 way pot? Or any simple formula?
I have started a thread about this question here : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post51765945
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
02-24-2017 , 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker-hero
Hi,
I have set up a spot where BTN and SB are shortstacks (5bb).
BTN shoves, SB calls, and I was wondering which hands were +EV calls.

So I set it up in CREV :

Code:
[CardRunnersEV v3.3.0]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[-PJ#3JkLG9_1iKvSalzwS5F?&aHEXx4dc#I7Hi-cfYOo.z#q5s4kYGmzg&gxoxxW-bs.rx]
[RTQFMl_=mI*(&qf#-)!Tl=!mFt&*-3qK@l7+-=uu*-b.tSg.5dcIO53WQ0ocXfQ8SIiDYc]
[XH?Q6gQL9LM9aeC50hm$&rZ.dHK&bO0-6w2CrZod-d5XU-6..m739PP9QH?NtmK2?$Dm9!]
[GC2D8Ba!@B@.uhpPsouPGMd!V.3nyLc!o9mmbf30!QszaM$NwwfiKzrXri1su81z3J2GrN]
[1yMZQhmg-WwkagDy#2+TKeil7KnI!c!A.4k2mdqgR1C5TkMkBUAqjGlZusD82N&yM6-f#q]
[yZzg5QqZxQaTFi_UVYTRTA-zS?_!@#XDh.$3!C6ZfIC7QF#9pB&fp82+SmUOTO1-5qFfQF]
[q_psV22TtlFoJtRzIxzAl7#GMey-S?pa9!.+Gw&#V_D&W3m&SYLeG+#!Hewfe#QFI.ZMI7]
[#cvVoRbHPU1MwrCOkqgNoj3QxsDJf_?PMZrzr#vq!xnxG4PSYJdh1lX@0ev2t@g6V72iix]
[lGDlZx&KyOm@&bhij9CjEbZ2bIa5-iImsjruPHKXV3$N_RX#h+-yX2.yASIjgv#dzJuCmz]
[qB2L.r869It1RHNPs&CVJF55?slde3-STnepRAWP$Gx4kZihPLZe.EaBs6L0ltFTVDj49.]
[10?a6Bs+dJ1O9jM707js6Y-s_W9Bk_+X@1ke@Y4-$_+Z.@SZhZtSqaok-wphT#hV$smm-h]
[QwSLZR9Ui$_L43LjA5V-!sTHDw?yh5Gtfi?l!@5HAL#$O9pv8hNZw?ffNeiNIE9xCEp9&F]
[mu86obk$aXEvDGDF#GT.#dQ5yxIzK3O1ukr+888wEv88XcbRR4rnNnrgy&CdAYDlOMamyh]
[bwQOYveaUPa9Ff8Et7LR2YCnM?32vsxN.sJ684DB+H3Z#mHDf+XpC?o_AZc1.M2FZ37ugf]
[!re1m?_epIj-X1kr!v+eOG_RLtYOrvemlC8SAy&B!T8!?aJiRPIMQA4wn4csjRTkKqEpjQ]
[5u5JZQ$k&iE!QqcFM988OfkxV30pDD7_Txc39csR9it9GWHNv3YNw&bOV7h-8&+Lj617Zf]
[p$y&P-Nkd6w+FnoyWmfE4wFn?NyvWO$Ekxz&XR7dBB4ZwLCQ5g7qk7&nuex62B1kCMNX1R]
[6eQoz0z_ZVGkWHbGL1nBZKF@,wA0osL$r,CFKOMo&&pviv9nggGGcNi.7MI1O9WQ+_R!fB]
[hPPOvhCMB55-O#e&3lUD.IySppf.ZI!D+fesH#TtPqlY+5T7QlLv954aT$KgJ&+.SJYwEh]
[NStaYSMIeoGb6Pja@iSdQ+cvgh$INP@C.V&TjDzCbl4FqX+aGHT9XLz+bxbh0H$i6&qpd@]
[7?B$lQ@fAYm+k+XNQzXG7N1YKop88U1gV&4H#ay8KumwWM_nUSiEo+dQf2dZwBW6em7l.7]
[sg?o8Wfrf4EKoPR24gVTIRtemm$ylyDlrOvMUL&!g3nHI1,@LeAVMft,VGhxAHj9@Nj4kV]
[zPIHxXdabqz1e@tlHX3YX-63+lbLy7po&!BCgRCq9eW00Sa7bl.Q4ljwJu-B-Oe?UCYKqE]
[fDwh@!v$z_AiWWVCkCZw4K7tdAk0&d+BlGiWUs_+!FUHU5+@zb4FSYJF6b!Ux4Z.AlawgX]
[FV2e7heclWxczhctu.J0N0aaMvlOCnY2qSkR4pr@NUSf1h8cQREX!vZLpfuxCg&Q5LD448]
[hS2RphbR`NQ`+vw-KDZu#rCkMVVGN$PCDNG3Nj+qcDkR1AHiYC?Oy8iaq$9G$21aC.myCg]
[hXwNxJCL.4v8K77Y?jSrlgFuy7g88eQiU7nYo!jTs_CV#i06ksXTtxtgsiR&K838WDHCsY]
[3gTI-zCPgBGmb0KDKk0liT3Rlv1X?#qKPKxhpFVDtlQ?8ZuJ8Q-A+&1IVrLdj7xQHyk@pJ]
[L#4oIBUlm-JXOAhMJfZtl4joY&6!U?@e6iP3sFQ@rcTj!aQN67aohbIQqVbNOZOstODGA3]
[&gJHr55MnS_O#E9LLpjk9SIttKW3WXjjd$5juD4_w6e+?kBWe8H?Yq?XFq3g+CVNFH.#l#]
[e97agAOhuSSvgjmJh4HezNP-R4w2Jy8MVD?dGAj]
So when my mouse goes on the "call" action for BB, in the pop up window, I can see the EV for calling with each one of my combos, right?

How can it be more +EV to call with AKo (3.7) than with AKs (1.98)?
and also : A9o > A9s, A7o > A7s

I thought this was due to combo removal, but for example, there very few 7x combos in Villain's ranges, so I don't get it. And such a difference between AKs and AKo...
When using monte carlo, you will need a sufficient number of simulations for the results to converge. In particular, if you want the results for individual combos to converge, then each combo will need sufficient simulations as well.

In order to increase the number of simulations that reach BB I have removed all fold actions. Now all simulations reach him. On top of that, I have increased the total number of simulations. See below for a pic with the performance of the individual combos after doing this:



That being said, when using Monte Carlo, all results will always have an error in them. So it may take some effort to get a clear picture for individual combos. A big advantage on the other hand of the Monte Carlo engine is that it will always work, even for multiple players or unknown boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poker-hero
PS : Scylla, as you are in the maths and algorithms, another question : If we have a decent estimation of what our equity is vs BTN range, and a decent estimation of what our equity is vs SB range, is there any trick to make a decent estimation of our equity in this 3 way pot? Or any simple formula?
I have started a thread about this question here : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post51765945
No, there's no such trick that I'm aware of. There's too many factors involved to make a reliable estimation. It's most likely not too difficult to come up with many scenarios where you have equity X versus player 1 and equity Y versus player 2, but with a different equity versus both.
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02-24-2017 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
When using monte carlo, you will need a sufficient number of simulations for the results to converge. In particular, if you want the results for individual combos to converge, then each combo will need sufficient simulations as well.

In order to increase the number of simulations that reach BB I have removed all fold actions. Now all simulations reach him. On top of that, I have increased the total number of simulations. See below for a pic with the performance of the individual combos after doing this:



That being said, when using Monte Carlo, all results will always have an error in them. So it may take some effort to get a clear picture for individual combos. A big advantage on the other hand of the Monte Carlo engine is that it will always work, even for multiple players or unknown boards.



No, there's no such trick that I'm aware of. There's too many factors involved to make a reliable estimation. It's most likely not too difficult to come up with many scenarios where you have equity X versus player 1 and equity Y versus player 2, but with a different equity versus both.
ty scylla, I didn't know I was not using the maths engine.

I just read on your website :
There's two situations where the math engine can't be used:
- There's more than two active players in the hand
So I guess I can't use math engine here, right?

So in fact, these results I mentioned are not accurate?
I should increase the number of simulations I guess? What number do you recommend?
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02-24-2017 , 08:10 AM
even with 1.000.000 sims the results were wrong. (AKo > AKs). Very surprised cuz 1.000.000 sims huge...

with 10.000.000 sims, suited combos are more profitable than offsuit ones.
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02-25-2017 , 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker-hero
even with 1.000.000 sims the results were wrong. (AKo > AKs). Very surprised cuz 1.000.000 sims huge...

with 10.000.000 sims, suited combos are more profitable than offsuit ones.
Given that there's 169 different preflop hands, you will indeed need a very large number of simulations if you want every single one of them to have a result within an error margin of roughly 1 cent. Generally though, you can get a pretty clear picture of the +EV calling range for a player with far fewer simulations; it will however mean that there will be some scattering due to a handful of hands not being fully converged yet. EV wise this shouldn't matter, given that precisely the hands where there will be scattering are borderline anyhow, and don't affect the results in any meaningful way.

Other than that, I notice that you have two players folding prior to button's raise. The simulation will run twice as fast if you leave them out. This is because right now the software is spending a lot of time figuring out the card removal effects from these two players, while they are folding "all hands". On the other hand, if you actually give them a folding range, you'll get to see what the influence of their card removal is on the following play. This is one of the advantages of the monte carlo engine. It can figure out just about anything, for any number of players. The disadvantage is that sometimes you will need to do some effort in interpreting the results.

Cheers,

Scylla
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02-25-2017 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Given that there's 169 different preflop hands, you will indeed need a very large number of simulations if you want every single one of them to have a result within an error margin of roughly 1 cent. Generally though, you can get a pretty clear picture of the +EV calling range for a player with far fewer simulations; it will however mean that there will be some scattering due to a handful of hands not being fully converged yet. EV wise this shouldn't matter, given that precisely the hands where there will be scattering are borderline anyhow, and don't affect the results in any meaningful way.

Other than that, I notice that you have two players folding prior to button's raise. The simulation will run twice as fast if you leave them out. This is because right now the software is spending a lot of time figuring out the card removal effects from these two players, while they are folding "all hands". On the other hand, if you actually give them a folding range, you'll get to see what the influence of their card removal is on the following play. This is one of the advantages of the monte carlo engine. It can figure out just about anything, for any number of players. The disadvantage is that sometimes you will need to do some effort in interpreting the results.

Cheers,

Scylla
ty for your answer.

we don't realize that even a number like 1.000.000 is quite small when there are so many possible combos and boards.

is there a feature in CREV that allows to run several spots in a row?

For example, I'd like to run this spot for 5bb stacks, but also 6bb, 7bb, 10bb, etc...

can we run a script or something like that with CREV?
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