This is a really good thread I've talked with other people about this a decent amount. I'm not an mtt reg so I hardly deal with this stuff at all and might have some of this wrong but w/e feel free to correct me if I do. I've sold action to big live tourneys here and bought from a few as well, all for no markup. Unless it's a big tournament that will likely be soft I see 0 reason to ever sell action and markup an online tourney, especially when it's packages for a bunch of tourneys. If you have 50% of yourself in a bunch of $100's, why not just keep 100% of yourself in a bunch of $50's and it will be softer? There really is no shortage of these online these days. If it's something like the WCOOP ME or even on a slightly smaller scale FTOPS ME where it will likely have a lot of satty qualifiers and thus be super-soft for a tourney of that stake then I can see doing it.
But in general I guess I just don't think a lot of the midstakes (or whatever $20-$100 plus Sunday major regs are called) mtt pros are that good at poker and as was mentioned above a lot of the time the difference between someone with a 30% roi and breakeven is 1-2 big scores. This is actually something I've discussed a lot too. Make an mtt pro lose his 5 biggest all-ins that he won and almost every single one will be a lifetime loser. Take away the 5 biggest all-ins from any cash pro and they're still solid winners. I know it's cliche but it just seems the mtt pros who have won a decent amount of money don't realize how much luck there really is in tournaments. And I see it all the time, guy with ABI ~$30 has 30% roi that basically all came from a big win and wanting 25% markup on a 1k tourney or something. That's just ridiculous imo. And the best part is the place where most of these regs suck is in the deep stages which the bigger tourneys generally have more of. I'm probably gonna piss mtt people off (if I haven't already
) but as a FR cash reg when I play deep tourneys I just see leaks miles wide by people that I hear are solid mtt pros. They do **** that snap makes me mark them as a fish then I find out oh that guy has 100k+ in mtt winnings and is considered solid on 2p2? Obviously the really good mtt pros are good at poker in general I'm not talking about them. No one thinks twice when Jorg asks for markup or if elky came on 2p2 selling pieces with markup. But when the $50 mtt reg who would likely be enough to build a cash game around if he sat 200bb deep at even a 200nl table online and certainly 400nl+ sorry if I find it a bit ludicrous when they ask for something like 25% markup in a big deepstack tourney.
Also my view when I offer shares for sale is they're doing me a favor by allowing me to reduce variance/play the tourney for a smaller amount and I do them a favor by giving them something that is no doubt a +ev investment. So I'm never going to buy a piece of someone that I don't think is a no-brainer +ev investment and I hope I never offer to sell pieces when it is not a no-brainer investment for the people buying. I'm just not going to take a high-variance prospect for a tiny amount of ev and the person selling shares should probably realize that it's slightly -ev to sell those shares but it reduces variance and they can now play in a tourney they previously wouldn't have been able to.
Also as an aside been curious what if people invested in 100% of people who sold action at the markup they offered in the 2p2 marketplace? Would be interesting to see what kind of roi (and if it's even positive) they got and that would be a pretty good indicator of whether the markup people were taking was somewhat fair or simply a complete ripoff.
Also I pretty much agree with everything klink said and not entirely sure where I stand on pointing out if something is obviously a bad investment. Just fwiw the line of "it's none of your business if you're not gonna bet stay out" was the exact line used in the gary_neville bet as it was starting and a few people were saying it seemed kinda shady.
Also in response to this from tdomeski:
Quote:
What if he told you it was 10% cheaper across the road and then when you got across it was higher priced or the same price or only 2% cheaper? How would that make you feel? 100% certainty on prices don't exist in this Marketplace, that's one of the reasons I feel it's in bad form to chime in if you have no intention of buying, you honestly aren't anywhere near to 100% authority on the subject.
It's not really like that because you know what the price is before you walk across the street. A better analogy would be "It's $10 here you can get it for 5 euros across the road. I don't know how much a euro is compared to dollar just thought I'd point it out". But when the person selling is essentially pointing out all the good points (and who can blame him for that) I think someone as long as they don't lie/slander the person can make a post there simply stating the reasoning as to why they think it is a bad investment. I mean I'm not sure, I agree that if it's borderline it would be bad taste to post something about it while if it was a complete rip-off it should be almost a moral obligation to point it out. I'm not entirely sure why and I'm not sure where we draw the line.
Anyway sorry for length but it's a really interesting topic.
Last edited by zachvac; 05-21-2010 at 02:50 AM.