Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2010, 08:53 PM   #451
tdomeski
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,321
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirio11 View Post
I think it would be nice if somebody has the time to do a thread with all the people who sold shares for this WSOP and their results (as well as any other situations that arose), for future references.
i think this will go down as the biggest year of WSOP piece buying on 2p2. might be wrong about this, but just a hunch. i dont expect it to be as big next year as it was this year. too many ppl making it too much of a hassle for no reason.
tdomeski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 02:36 AM   #452
George Lind III
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blogging
Posts: 3,751
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I doubt I take on as many people next year. I like having all the action and I did end up making a small profit (assuming I get paid by everyone), but it's way too much hassle. I've gotten outright stolen from at least twice already (possibly more with payments pending) and multiple other horses who just change their schedule in the middle as they see fit or sell 4 extra packages or don't update for a week or more after their schedule is done or tell me after I agree to a certain markup and send the money that they also will withhold 30% for taxes. I'll certainly put a lot more value on reputations and how the people handled themselves in previous share-sales next year (which I did this year too but probably didn't do enough).
George Lind III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 10:45 AM   #453
KajunKenny
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: da bayou
Posts: 863
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I just wish that everyone who post selling shares would create a rail thread or atleast post results in the OP... really sucks to just play guessing games...
KajunKenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 12:01 PM   #454
KenDoG_819
old hand
 
KenDoG_819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,274
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Another Tax question Guys. Say i have 20 different people buying pieces of me (for 60%) to a certain event.

I make a decent score.

Now when i go to cashout, and they bring out the tax forms, am supposed to tell them that i sold 60% of myself off between 20 different backers and that i need 20 forms?

Do i need everyone that backed me's full information, to 1099 them at the end of the year?

What if they give me fake info to dodge paying taxes?

These points make me feel that taxes should be withheld at time of prize collection to prevent issues with the irs. (unless u personally know the backer)
KenDoG_819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 09:29 PM   #455
ProfessorBen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ProfessorBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Meet my friend, "Tomato"
Posts: 9,897
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I've read this thread about 3 times now and always forget to post this - thanks for the back-and-forth and all the questions that go on in this thread. Learned alot, helped me spell things out for my buyers more clearly and eliminated the "what did I forget?" feeling.
ProfessorBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 02:04 PM   #456
Thibavol
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 927
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Yes thanks alot to the great posts in this thread. really learned a lot.

Now i got a question, I want to sell a package for RPS Riga+EPT Tallin+Sides and i'm not sure of what markup ranges would be good. Where to ask for opinions ? Any input would be appreciated.

I am also not sure of how to deal with exchange rate variations.
Thibavol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 04:49 PM   #457
klink10k
banned
 
klink10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: bkk
Posts: 11,721
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

after reading through this forum and the absolute nonsense that is going on w/ wsop stakes being rolled and people acting like general idiots, I'm pretty sure i'm never investing in anyone in this forum unless I am very good friends with them. Its really tilting to have to ask for updates, or ask for hand histories over and over.
klink10k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 07:22 PM   #458
snewman06
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @stnewman
Posts: 2,622
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

So I have not commented much to date on here, but I am stunned at how bad some of these stakes were handled by the horses.

I just posted in one where OP sold out 75% of himself in 20K worth of WSOP/Venetian tourneys (at 25% MU - so he got $17.5K). According to George Lind (largest staker by far), he has no information at all as of now as to how ANY of the tourneys went. Nothing at all.

I am an active investor and seller in these forums, and this sh--it is killing the forum's credibility.

I mean, I sold two packages this summer for similar dollar amounts. I tweeted every break, reviewed every big hand as they happened, etc. I then gave a full recap of each trip (took an hour to write each) with details and then distributed the winnings on the first one, and the leftovers (losings?) on the second one.

It is not that I love re-living and writing these recaps of tourneys.....I know what happened. But these investors transferred thousands of dollars to me without much more than a name and a couple references. I mean, they are owed the respect of timely and complete information, good, bad, or indifferent.

Much was made of HIV and The Great Wall, which were obviously both absurd situations....(also have a developing one that I invested in.....Damo Suzuki aka Josh King), but at least there was some communication.....I mean, not defending those fools, but providing no updates or info is just about as bad. I mean, how do we even know if they played the events (in Damo Suzuki's case, we are realizing that he did not play some of the tourneys in the package).

Honesty, transparency, and information flow is paramount to the continued success of these forums. These forums can be great, offering a potential return to investors, and a shot at a big score for some up and coming players with more limited means.....all that is rendered meaningless if investors continue to be treated the way many were this summer......they will simply stop giving good people a shot.

Stewart
snewman06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 01:27 AM   #459
cld343
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 661
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirio11 View Post
I think it would be nice if somebody has the time to do a thread with all the people who sold shares for this WSOP and their results (as well as any other situations that arose), for future references.
I've created a database where I enter all relevant information. I too think a public one would be best. Some mentioned that we have the negative feedback thread, but it isn't updated enough making it inadequate. Not the fault of the thread obviously. There are also many cases that don't belong in the negative feedback, but are important in consideration for backing. Also, the database contains info about those that have a stellar reputation as well. I'm planning a separate bankroll for nothing but staking in 2011, though I'll be super selective.

The biggest thing I've learned is that instead of worrying about pieces selling out fast, I'll spend the extra few hours going through ancient posts. It sometimes does seem like more hassle than what it's worth. That's why the database idea works well, just would be easier to have it shared to make it much bigger. Maybe it would be okay to host it outside of 2+2, not sure about that whole scenario. Maybe mods have an opinion.

I tend to believe that when several posters have a tight relationship and a couple roll on their stakes, it's worth noting for all of them. This may seem unfair, but too much information seems better than not enough. For example, a backer with several horses is more likely to be linked to rolled stakes, though no fault of his own. The references given in these cases though has to have some weight. Everyone can make up their own mind. I don't want to invest in anyone with a single blemish on their record. Clearly, others aren't such sticklers.

I'm all for having a discussion solely about how to make the marketplace safer for staking and BAPs. The amount of scammers is going to increase with the ease of obtaining money. I personally thought is was awesome that I could raise $16k so easily for myself, but now I see the dangers as a whole. It's easier to raise money here than getting a loan at the bank. As part of the marketplace for the long term, I really want to see more discussion of stakes without people feeling attacked. I do realize this is probably a fantasy as many people are defensive when questioned about anything.

Mods, can we create a thread somewhere solely for the purpose of discussion around making staking decisions safer? I, like many others, am sick of the high number of outright thefts, let alone the arrogance some people have when dealing with other people's money.

Last edited by cld343; 07-23-2010 at 01:33 AM. Reason: typos
cld343 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 01:48 AM   #460
Sect7G
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

To the 2 above posts... well said.
Sadly it only takes a few bad apples and the high end investors who make big money playing on their own will just turn away from the marketplace. This will leave above average players who don't have the financial means left at home next summer.
Sect7G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 04:36 PM   #461
terrellk11
old hand
 
terrellk11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,927
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Question:

I'm fairly new to selling my action on here. However, I've been playing backed on PartTimePoker for some time and, like here, my action is often sold in pieces to a number of different investors.

One issue that comes up on a fairly regular basis on PTP is that people will reserve shares in a horse for something that is a month or so away but then NOT ship when the time comes to play. The horse ends up getting stuck without someone to claim that piece of the action and ends up pulling money out of pocket (or maybe not being able to play).

What I've done on PTP to avoid this issue is to require a deposit for a reserve of 25% of whatever the backer wants held for them. That way the backer gets to avoid having all their money tied up for a month or more and the horse gets some security that the backer will actually ship when the time comes.

What do people think about using a deposit system like that here?
terrellk11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 06:02 PM   #462
ProfessorBen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ProfessorBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Meet my friend, "Tomato"
Posts: 9,897
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Just set a deadline for when your reserved shares go back up for grabs depending on how fast you sell action and take a waitlist if necessary. If you plan properly and are a good enough horse, this should never be an issue here. Making more work for yourself and your buyers for no gain seems meaningless and is a pretty big turn off for potential buyers. It also looks like you're getting people to commit regardless of whatever may happen which also appears suspicious.
ProfessorBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 06:06 AM   #463
zizazu
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 333
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

im trying make a new thread to sell a weekend mtt package but keep getting this pop up

"zizazu, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation. "

what do i have to do ?
zizazu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 03:41 PM   #464
greenman7
centurion
 
greenman7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Posts: 132
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hey... Im new to the forums and looking to get into buying shares. I was wondering what kind of ROI's some of the users here have achieved over a decent sample size.

Thanks!
greenman7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 11:34 PM   #465
snewman06
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @stnewman
Posts: 2,622
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenman7 View Post
Hey... Im new to the forums and looking to get into buying shares. I was wondering what kind of ROI's some of the users here have achieved over a decent sample size.

Thanks!

This is a super tough general question with many variables. As for online poker MTTs, a 25%+ ROI over a large sample size is probably a decent starting point. But this depends on ABI, tourney type, was all the money made in one score, lot of other factors.

OPR does provide a ton of detail, so that is good place to start.
snewman06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 11:55 PM   #466
greenman7
centurion
 
greenman7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Posts: 132
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by snewman06 View Post
This is a super tough general question with many variables. As for online poker MTTs, a 25%+ ROI over a large sample size is probably a decent starting point. But this depends on ABI, tourney type, was all the money made in one score, lot of other factors.

OPR does provide a ton of detail, so that is good place to start.

Thanks for the answer...but I was actually curious about what kind of ROI's investors on the forums were able to obtain through buying shares.
greenman7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 12:40 AM   #467
BlackRazor7
banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,800
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I'm a winning 25nl FR player [2.2BB over 250k+ hands according to PTR] and also grind out sunday million rebuy satellites [$2.22r, $3.33r] and have a very good record in them as my sharkscope and OPR will back up, also won a $700 wsop sat ticket [$1r 3x sat] when they were running.

Would it be easy for me to get a stake in the sunday million on a weekly basis?

Last edited by BlackRazor7; 07-25-2010 at 12:49 AM.
BlackRazor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2010, 12:40 AM   #468
snewman06
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @stnewman
Posts: 2,622
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenman7 View Post
Thanks for the answer...but I was actually curious about what kind of ROI's investors on the forums were able to obtain through buying shares.
often discussed item, very difficult to get accurate information. Since MTTs have so much variance, you would have to back people consistently for years on here to start to get a true ROI that meant something.

Personally, I am a little behind staking on here, but it's close to breakeven so far. Sample size is not nearly enough for results to matter.
snewman06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #469
camz2895
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 7,263
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Can someone clear up how the package deals work? For example, if i buy 10% of someone for a FTOPS series. Say he plays 10 300$ buyins. He cashes the 1st one for 2k(1700 profit) but bricks everything else. Do the stakers get their share of that 1700 profit or is it only 10% of the overall profit from the entire series?

Thanks,
camz2895 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:34 PM   #470
JP OSU
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
JP OSU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 8,853
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by camz2895 View Post
Can someone clear up how the package deals work? For example, if i buy 10% of someone for a FTOPS series. Say he plays 10 300$ buyins. He cashes the 1st one for 2k(1700 profit) but bricks everything else. Do the stakers get their share of that 1700 profit or is it only 10% of the overall profit from the entire series?

Thanks,
Profit means nothing, only cashes... In your scenario you get 10% of 2k...
JP OSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2010, 03:41 PM   #471
camz2895
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Posts: 7,263
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Thanks for clearing that up.
camz2895 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 07:24 AM   #472
papag
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 59
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hi guys. I have an important question that needs answering please. My friend approached me a while ago about action sharing, where I get a certain % of him and he gets a certain % of me when we play. But I'm not sure how to structure a long term deal so that it's fair for both of us. My current poker br is ~$380k and his is ~$85k. This is due to having a very good wsop. We both play similar stakes online but I play 10/20 and will probably take shots at 25/50 while he only plays up to 5/10. We both have similar win rates. And we both trust eachother completely with money. We've done staking deals for large amounts of $ before. What would be a fair % of him to take of my action if I took say 40% of his action? Are there some other factors I should be considering like if his br drops down to a certain point are we supposed to restructure a deal?
thanks
papag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 09:39 AM   #473
Nofx Fan
banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,632
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I think it's much easier to trade action in tournaments, also the variance is higher so it makes more sense. Tournament by tournament, or for cash games maybe session by session, but I just think it's going to be a huge pita to try and figure out a percentage to trade when you both play different stakes and it would need to be volume dependent as well.

I think trading a live cash game session or tournament is the wtg. If you both are solid winning online cash game players I don't really see the reason why you would trade action. I would think it would make more sense to just stake him if his BR is the reason he wants to do this.
Nofx Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 09:44 AM   #474
papag
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 59
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofx Fan View Post
I would think it would make more sense to just stake him if his BR is the reason he wants to do this.
I think that's what I'll end up doing. So if he lays 85k and I lay 85k to play 2/4-10/20, what's a fair/std way to split profits?

Btw the reason he wants to share action or be staked is because he has very little self control when playing on his own. He takes crazy shots and gambles all the time if there's no structured deal he has to follow.
papag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2010, 08:06 PM   #475
KenDoG_819
old hand
 
KenDoG_819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,274
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by zizazu View Post
im trying make a new thread to sell a weekend mtt package but keep getting this pop up

"zizazu, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation. "

what do i have to do ?
PM a Mod
KenDoG_819 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive