considering the circumstances, anything less than 50% would be unfair to u. if u havent already, i would be doing an audit history of the entire stake since this guy clearly has trust issues.[/QUOTE]

yeah well he ruined his chance once he spammed my facebook page, so gg bbz

thanks ryan, you always have a way of putting things into perspective

must of been consuming a hell a lot of ur avatar

My first thought when I read the 35% thing was that it was pretty unreasonable and another large backer I talked to seems to agree. If a horse scams/steals from a backer, the backer still has the opportunity to let him grind out of makeup and then let him go afterwards. If the backer chooses not to do that and just lets the horse go right then, I don't see why the horse should be paying such a large % of the MU or any of it at all really. If the horse refuses to continue to grind, it's an entirely different story and should be responsible for 100% of it. All of these opinions are of course irrelevant if there were agreed upon buyout %'s for specific situations when the stake started.

lol, what bbz does to you on facebook means nothing. if it's the right thing to do (paying him back), than it's the right thing to do regardless of what bbz does on your facebook wall. maybe one day when you grow up, you will realize this.

standard way for a thief/scammer/scumbag to think. maybe if you didnt do all these things, you wouldnt be getting outed to your friends and family?

confirmed scumbag.

zima will you stake me plsss???? <3

What a hand shanker you really are - arrogant doesn't even come close

Blokes like you would be locked up and placed in jail for this if it was not done in here. This is fraud, blatant fraud. You should man up and accept responsibility for being not only a thief but a liar. Nobody wants to see people get pulled through the mud and beat down constantly and people may have even shown a bit of compassion if you had accepted your wrong doings.

What do you do? You belittle people and make a mockery of the fact that you are wrong and are due people substantial amounts. The question now is, what is the state of your mind and the mentality that we are dealing with here guys. IMO there is very little to slim chance of him paying back the makeup to any investor as he is too wrapped up in his little world to realise that it would be the correct thing to do.

Put it this way, if you ever get staked again, then more fool them as I think you have done your reputation no help whatsoever with your immature and quite frankly unprofessional handling of the whole situation.

Bottom line here is, tell the truth and it makes the pain a lot easier to bear.

re FrankThomas8

He paid off all or most of the rolled Bap but has a continuing disagreement with his previous backer.
The thread is getting ugly and FrankThomas8 is now mocking his backer and others.

I just sent this and will ban him.
(pm sent)

FT8 i'm in Jordan's stable and I know firsthand he's been nothing but good to you. You owe him the money he gave you to live off at the very least, as it was given under the assumption of a continued stake. If he had dropped you due to losing faith in your game or downsizing stable or whateverthen yeah fair enough but he dropped you because he was forced to because you used stake money to play games outside that stake.

You owe him the living expenses money, and in my opinion a settlement on makeup would be fair but that can come somewhere down the line if you ever want to salvage your rep.

Right now i'd imagine taking legal action against you for theft is the right call for BBZ if possible, although if you paid back the living expenses money then it would at least show good faith even if you can't reach a settlement on makeup, anything less is outright theft, remember YOU forced him to end the stake when you failed to live up to the terms of a backing agreement.

and if you do end up rolling bbz for the living expenses money, then all i have to say is you are a worthless piece of human garbage, the guy paid for you to live ffs if you have any decency you will pay that money back even if its using a payment plan

well, you sure are handling this well!

FT8,
I remember playing razz tables with you on stars/tilt. We chatted from time to time and I used to sweat your hu tables once in a while. I can honestly say that I actually looked up to you!!! You seemed like a good dude and I thought you had your **** together. Do yourself a favor and take a few days off from poker. Take a step back and think about all that has transpired. Most people (myself included) would love to have a backer put out the effort that bbz seems to have put out for you. If he was as good to you as it seems, just try to make it right. Man up, admit your wrong doings, and work something out with him privately. IMO, it is nobody elses business!!! Maybe you guys can even repair your relationship somehow. He obviously thought very highly of you at some point and it is YOUR responsibility to fix things with him since it was YOUR POOR DECISIONS that set these events in motion. I truthfully really hope everything works itself out for you. Just make better choices and think everything through and eventually you'll see the light at the end of the tunnel again.
-Joe

Zima- to my knowledge, if 2 people agree to a longterm stake which will possibly get in makeup play out like this. The player plays and if he wins then great everything is ok and they divide the #s up how they agreed. But if the player loses and says gets 10k in makeup and gets dropped(due to maybe just playing bad or the backer just cant afford to risk more $$$... what happens here? Does the player owe any part of that 10k? My opinion is NO of course not, because that will essentially be saying the backer is freerolling and cannot lose right?

So thats maybe why Frank8 doesnt want to pay? How is "making a backer drop you" in his case making him owe 25k? Ok he played games out of roll i understand that, but this should be looked at and added up right?What if he won those games? That $$ Would have been added back into the bankroll, so in a way bigb is freerolling? Im asking questions here and trying to look from every perspective. Also has it been confirmed Frank8 doesnt want to be staked anymore? If he did how would that play into this?


for record, not on his side i think what he did was very low. Just curious how the staking works in detail

He was applying for multiple stakes...check his posts from the last few days.

When the horse breaks part of the agreement and gets dropped, they in general owe every $ worth of make-up, which was the case in frank's deal. He played games outside of the deal, which is essentially equivalent to stealing, thus the backer had to end the deal and drop him as he can't trust him.

Because frank didn't follow the rules of the agreement, he owe's whatever make-up he was in.

If he had followed the rules, and was only dropped because of poor play or something, then frank wouldn't owe a penny.

Pretty simple.

I doubt he could have handled any of this worse than he has, and tbh should at the very least be banned from the MP for life.

thanks prot, but lets play devil sticks here, what if Frank played a 1k super tuesday or something he wasnt allowed in.... and he won 80k, what should happen here? he'll be dropped but who gets the 80 grand and why? I sort of someway feel like backer gets a sick freeroll, but i can see both sides.. see what zima says

Backer would get his share, and then could drop the horse and have the horse owe the rest of he make up (if they were still in) out of pocket.

If horse breaks the agreement, and get dropped for it, they owe their make up. Anything less allows the horse to freeroll the backer in many ways.

i mean, ft8 got droped because of this thread, not only he played games that he was not allowed but he was in debt and didnt had money to repay ppl so bbz was forced to drop him as he cant continue playing and owe so much to ppl and he saw how he handled it bad before he binked tcoop so didnt wanted to send him more money that he could steal or whatever, thats how i saw situation

FT8, you display every trait in a scumbag/scammer. You didn't repay that money because you felt bad about it and knew it was the right thing to do, infact i'm sure you rescented sending that money. You sent that money because you knew it had too be done to have any shot at being trusted/staked again and your only way of continuing your career as a poker player.

You show no remorse and an unbelievable amount of disrespect and immaturity.

You are exactly the type of person who would do this again, and for that the community will ensure that you are never staked or trusted again.

FYL.

what should really happen here is he should stop gambling..forever.... and go to rehab and get a job

but it will never happen..instead you will lose all your friends and support in due time..might take more years..but it will happen..

gl in life

i sense prison in your future

OP asked me for staking deal yesterday. for $15 hu with a $300 bankroll... i'm guessing that was going to be an attempted spin up / paying off debts and me gettin put in the queue.

i beat him in a 15 HU euro sng the other day.

sorry investors.

If there is anyone out there as stupid as me, then I give out a final warning

[3:15:06 AM] Frankthomas: thats the problem, i was waiting for a way to say this but i played cash games in ipoker there is nothing left on there, i am willing to grind out on ongame 3k makeup since its ur account and u feel safer if u wanna just drop me then i completely understand
[3:16:17 AM] "Othello": I had that feeling when u said u wanna play on stars instead because of the action
[3:16:36 AM] Frankthomas: yeah, i clearly ****ed up big
[3:17:31 AM] Frankthomas: there is prob 500 in rakeback coming though
[3:17:45 AM] "Othello": I told my friends it was 80/20 u would bust it on cg. Just wanted to give u a helping hand, thought the benefits of helping a person out outweighed the risk of you busting the account. I still feel that way somehow. But obviously I cant let you play on my account now.
[3:18:02 AM] Anthony Maranca: yeah
[3:18:04 AM] "Othello": It bothers me somehow, really dont care about the financial loss, but dude you gotta stop this.
[3:18:10 AM] Frankthomas: yeah i know
[3:18:17 AM] Frankthomas: i think i am gonna go back to the states and find some help
[3:18:52 AM] Frankthomas: i appreciate the help, ill try to pay you back in some way once i get a job
[3:19:52 AM] "Othello": Got about 10 guys in the same situation as you :P And as I told them, put me on the last spot in any priority list if you got any, the most important thing is to get back on track in life, not in the + and minus.
[3:20:07 AM] Frankthomas: yeah
[3:20:14 AM] Frankthomas: poker has pretty much ruined my life
[3:20:23 AM] Frankthomas: well i have ruined my life, because of poker
[3:20:25 AM] "Othello": And just fyi, so u dont think Im nice here and kinda make a 360, I gotta write it in the 2+2 thread.
[3:21:57 AM] Frankthomas: yeah well since im banned from 2+2 can u also tell ppl that im gonna stop playing poker


What can I say, I been in bad situations myself and really felt that I might be able to help him. Dont care at all about the money. He didnt play the stakes agreed upon more than about the first 30 minutes I think. Doubt he will seek help but would be good for him. Not totally sure why I post it here but if anyone else think he might be a good investment I think those days are gone. I realize Im dumb for writing it when I myself didnt listen to others advice about him, but maybe some other guy reads this and is smarter