This is a really good point.

Think about what the X-Files would have been like if it was just Mulder and Scully arguing for every minute of every episode.

Sadly it can only come from the new characters since the established ones are stuck in their ways.

Another messageboard I frequent has a TWD discussion and one person said this show should win an award for the writing. LOL, he says the opposite of how most people; I thought he was kidding but he was serious.

Speaking of BB and the X-Files, Vince Gilligan is a master at bridging serious subject matter with levity. I mean, think about how they've treated Walt Jr.... he could have been the most depressing character ever, but instead of feeling sorry for him I chuckle at his witty comebacks and nickname 'Flynn.' And of course Walt and Jesse's relationship is as humorous as it is tragic.

Milch has the same gift, as do the writers of most other great shows.

The mere mention of a good guy doing something bad is unheard of for most viewers. I refuse to believe that anybody who thinks TWD writing is good is thinking in any terms other than how blown away they are at characters not living forever and not being in a mold of pure good or pure evil. TWD still fails hard at this ofc, but simply making Shane kill Otis then not telling anybody is more head asploding sort of writing than what 90% of audiences think real life is made of

Ya, The Road is a very very good movie. Think what TWD would be if Man and Boy (I'm pretty sure they are nameless, and this is how they are credited?) were Rick and CARL. That is exactly what this should be. If you want an outline of how to do "bleak" then The Road is the movie to watch.

How strong r the walkers really? That one tore through dale's stomach with his bare hands.

Check the 200 threads created that week flaming the show for having unrealistic zombies.

200??!! wow. Maybe that zombie just feasted on a steriod guy so he went on a roid rage.

The Road is one of those movies that I classify as a really good movie that I don't want to see again.

just finished season 1. I dont get all the hype for this

Since we're on The Road, am I the only one for whom the disney ending completely ruined it?

Maybe I need to rewatch, but I remember the end being pretty damn bleak. Which is strange, because Disney endings tend to really tilt me, esp in movies where there's no place for them.

I only read the book, but I thought the movie was said to stay true... What did they do at the end? I can't imagine that ending happily

downloading The Road now, I'll watch it tonight and then comment.

The Road wasn't Disney ending by a long shot

The ending was exactly the same as it was in the book.

Really miss u

This. I thought the ending to The Road was well thought out and then executed.

Serious grunch in a 49 page thread (100 posts per page)

I watched S1 and S2 this weekend...

I can understand a lot of the 2p2 hate. Characters are contradictory, ******ed and generally make poor decisions. The missing people all the time is tilting... Karl just popping up everywhere was so LOL. Relationships were weak. Definitely a lot of 'WTF' dialogue to keep the show moving. Teleporting Zombies, etc...

A serious plus is the opening soundtrack though, not too bad right? Also Darryl (from Boondock Saints) was pretty solid.

Overall, the premise is definitely good. Watching a show in a post apocalyptic world is kind of cool. I felt like the farm stuff dragged on for too long, and the show is kind of a tease in that if there was some more attention to detail and less cheap tricks, it would be very decent.

While I won't recommend this show to friends (Ty The Shield, Justified, The Wire, et. al) I also think a lot of the bashing is kind of silly.

Maybe if I had to wait week to watch it I would be way more tilted... but to me this show isn't much different than the later seasons of 24. It's watchable, I enjoyed it with some popcorn and an iced tea.

Tonight's episode was on par with every other episode besides last weeks.

Why does this make bashing the show "silly?" I watched a few early episodes of 24, I thought it was gimmicky and really bland. I hear that it became a parody of itself in later episodes-- and this is the bar you've set for "watchable?" And if this lax criteria is met then it is silly to critique the show?

If the show was low budget, and the critiques were things like visual effects and whatnot, then I would agree with you. B-movies/shows gonna B-movie/show. But the problems with this show are pretty much the exact opposite of a good B-movie. It has excellent visual effects and make up and whatnot, yet has horrible writing and editing and so on. The issue most people have with this show is not that it is bad, but that it is bad in ways that could so easily be fixed to make it an amazing show.

It's like going to an upscale restaurant and being served the finest ingredients, yet the preparation is absolute ****. There's not much you can do but have a laugh when a meal consisting of caviar, lobster, truffles, and foie gras tastes like ****.

One of the biggest disappointments of the show thus far has been how little meaningful observations of human action and interaction in the post-apoc world there has been. It's an obvious point to many, but I'll repeat it anyway: the main point of zombie movies in many ways is not the zombies (like someone pointed out before they are just an awesome, insane variable to end human civilization and bring constant fear, unpredictability and tension to the survivors), but the surviving humans and how they interact. A good, serious zombie show, which is what I feel this show is trying to be at times, should constantly be exploring Thomas Hobbes' famous assertion that life without civilization is "nasty, brutish and short", whether that is correct, or whether there is hope for a meaningful and productive existence with other human beings. There should be constant exploration of moral ambiguity, utilitarianism vs rights based morality, explorations of loneliness, suicide, exploring how and why human beings prey on each other, whether there is space for hope and so on and so on.

Obviously many of these themes have been explored to a certain extent, but the problem is that this exploration is just so superficial and shallow. They never push the envelope. Aspects of the show which have become a joke at this point, the Shane vs Daleface moral issues for example, could have been excellent, exciting and really thought provoking. If the writers had written this conflict better, given the characters proper motivations, and not had them constantly making ******ed decisions (not to mention the acting), then this could have been a great, great show which actually had something important to say. At the very least, it would have been much more interesting and watchable. There is such potential in this story for a really ****ing smart, interesting, and slick show, but it's just not executed, for many reasons already noted in this thread over and over.

One of the worst things is I don't know whether this is a conscious or unconscious decision on the part of the writers. Given they are smart people, the fact that the germs of a really fantastic show are in there, that they must have people around them to tell them all the dumb **** they're doing, and given the fact that there are so many criticisms which are obvious even to a child, I feel like it can't be an unconscious decision. Which leaves a conscious decision to appeal to the lowest form of tv fan. The way I see it is, they could make a really, really great show with not that much more effort that would appeal to smart, educated tv watchers who have a decent attention span. It could have all those interesting aspects, while also being hugely exciting and full of gore.

Instead, I picture them sitting round the table, picturing the typical fan that they are writing for, and it being this guy:



Which means they neglect all the important stuff, and just seek to fill the show with explosions, absurd plot-lines, a complete lack of logic or realism, crappy cliff-hangers, nonsensical dialogue etc etc.

FYP for OOTV standards.

+1 to Not_In_My_Name's post