This is the first season i've watched since season 3 or so. I might be interested in going back and watching some others, what's a good season for me to pick? (no spoilers) What's the best most recent season?

{dodging rocks} Keepitreal makes a decent point from time to time and he doesn't have the market cornered on making self-contradictory statements. We all do it.

I can't take the people who fail to entertain the possibility that Russell has made some mistakes (some of which could cost him the game) any more seriously than Keepitreal for failing to recognize Russell as a very good player who is playing very hard and creatively and entertaining us all.

Responding to some prior banter between Keep and Kos: And I believe Russell HAS shown ego, just not in the sense that he is openly treating others as less than himself. I believe his ego was involved with showing people that he found the idol. He had other motives as well, but I think the need to say, look what I did, played a role.

Did I dream several posts about how wildly clever Russell was for bonding so intricately with Laura when she came to FOA FOA? How that connection that he made was going to really pan out for him later? Yet, somehow those two ended up mortal enemies.

Russell is a very interesting character in that the person who I use as my 'everywoman' barometer doesn't like him, but says he is what is making the show interesting. She hated Fairplay, Randy, Coach, and Tyson and couldn't see them go soon enough. fwiw

Russell has made himself so much of a target, that he surely is in a real pickle as far as being able to convince anyone (besides Shambo) to go all the way to the end with him. I mean even people who don't like him, surely have to give him some grudging respect. And if he is able to make it through several more tribals with everyone gunning for him the way they have been for a couple weeks...I just can't see how he gets to the end unless he finds some way to control his own destiny coming down the stretch. To make the end run, you need a real alliance with people who can help you, or your interests need to coincide with the interests of others. In other words, going forward with you needs to have some value with others. If he is so feared by the majority right now, they recognize his gameplay, therefore his vote getting potential is just too high to make going to the end with him look good to ANYONE. (Except maybe Shambo, and maybe I'm selling her way too short like everyone else does.)

One thing is irrefutable, Russell has made this season very interesting and should he get voted out, it's all downhill from there. Like him or loathe him, you can't say you don't look forward to what is going to happen next.

The last season (Survivor 18: Tocantins) features one of the most truly unique and entertaining survivor contestants of all time, so you can start there. Survivor 16: Fans vs. Favorites is actually one of my favorite seasons, but if you're planning to go back and catch up on most of the seasons then I'd save this for later since 1/2 the contestants appear in earlier seasons so it might be useful to have a frame of reference for them.

Great Seasons after season 3: season 16, season 6, season 8, season 13, season 7
Good Seasons: season 10, season 12, season 14, season 15
Ok Seasons: season 11, season 17
Don't Waster your time: season 4, season 5, season 9

no, you suck

{throwing rocks} I don't

I'm setting the line at 34.5 years old and 1.5 kids for her

I really don't care a lot about seeing "the best player win". Who you think the best players are is heavily influenced by editing anyway. Final 3s eliminate a lot of the drama of the final tribal council, and 9 person juries make the final tribal council a cluster**** that's barely worth watching. Maybe we get some awesome jurors, maybe something happens between now and the finale to really set some people off...But I sure don't see it happening.

Even Ivey folds a winning hand sometimes.

Ahhh, to have almost the full selection of seasons available to watch for the first time....Definitely awesome. All of the seasons are entertaining one way or another, but some are definitely better than others.

I would definitely recommend starting with Pearl Islands.

I would definitely recommend avoiding Thailand and Fiji. I also personally highly dislike Cook Islands and Panama (aka Exile Island), but enough people do like those seasons to keep them off my recommended avoiding list.

Don't watch Fans vs Favorites until you've seen most of seasons 9-15, you really need the perspective of seeing the contestants the first time around. Same thing with Guatemala, they brought back 2 people from the previous season, make sure you watch Palau before Guatemala.

But seriously, you can't really go wrong with almost all of the seasons. I think the best way to watch them is probably in chronological order.

so true
Rob C (next to Hatch) was one of the best game players and hes the one I keep harping back to.
Russ doesn't need the idle this week , he just needs to make sure Shambo is on board with them. he can fake finding the idle and let them vote else where (the OG's arent going to vote for him if they think he has it)

One thing that works against Cesternino in my opinion (and the reason I would hesitate putting him at #1) is, that although he was extremely impressive the first time, he didn't do well at all in the all-star season. I'm more even impressed with players who improved on their achievements the second chance they got, eg Mariano despite everybody knowing how they play.

Also, Cesternino didn't win. I think some degree of result-oriented thinking is necessary too, after all, the goal is winning a million dollars, right?

If the tiebreaker is indeed the purple rock, he'll actually want to be voted for so he can be immune. Of course, Galu is probably too paranoid to vote for him, but if there's ever a week where you don't have an II and still want to receive votes, this is it.

You can't hold ASS seasons against players because everyone knows everyone, and there were reportedly some extremely shady pre-game agreements between some players. I think Mariano is one of the best players of all time (he played great in Marquesas, though people will ignore that), but he benefited from not being a former winner, having his wife on the show, and having Lex's complete lack of ethics work against him. There's a reason Jenna, Rupert, and Big Tom made the final five, and it sure isn't because they're good players. ASS seasons can help a player's legacy, but it shouldn't hurt anyone's since it's not the same type of game.

Cesternino lost because he couldn't stand on a tree stump. Had his season taken place 2-3 years later, he'd have won because they'd have had a F3. I don't see how you can bash him for not winning when he took two incredible goats to the F3, convinced one of them to still take him to the finals, and just lost in a fluky competition. It's really not that common for the best player in a season to win.

I don't know that Cesternino would have won in a jury vote against Jenna, but that's just speculation. Many people forget that part of the game, it's not just about getting to the final vote, but also having the jury on your side.

I think Russ might get the votes if he makes it that far, his old tribe will vote for him at this point. Erik would too and Shambo as long as he doenst burn her to soon.
Problem as I've said from the start, game players never make it far enough the always get smoked out (hes already smoked out) and eliminated right before the end.
All Russ needs to do is win this week and he makes final 5, but no further

Oh to reply , Rob C wouldn't have he was way way to sneaky , I mean Russ is , but old FF and even galu know the devil they are working with.

Jenna wanted to quit when they got down to 4-5 people, and the jury respected Rob. Of course, this is a moot point, though, as the only way for Jenna to get to the finals was to win immunity. Had Rob won, he obviously would have taken Matt and won 7-0.

Yes, that's true. I'm wondering who Matthew would have taken, more likely Rob too right?

I don't agree with this, there's far too much luck involved. You can't predict what the forthcoming immunity challenges will be, who will win immunity, who Jeff will **** over at TC by blabbing things from their private conversations and confessionals, etc.. You can only try to swing things in your favour as much as possible and maximize the probability that you'll win, but you can't MAKE yourself win.

During the game, he said he was loyal to Rob. After watching all the episodes on TV, I'm sure he'd change it and say he'd have taken Jenna; I mean, he was so embarrassed seeing his axe murderer persona on TV that he told Probst at the reunion that it was an act. The guy was completely clueless when he was out there, though, so I'm sure he'd have taken Rob.

ffs jenna did nothing but whine, cry, complain, bitch and moan for 36 days straight. She was dumb, worthless strategically, incredible naive and never ran the show at all. The only things of value that she did was being able to win that F4 maze challenge and being able to balance her frail 85 lb body on a log longer than two dudes bigger than her (well done). Her winning over Matt was a complete joke but not surprising given she had her best friend on the jury, a guy buried waist deep up her ass (alex), a crazy indecisive chick (christy), super girl-power feminist deena, and rob who in some ways was that desperate guy pining after a girl who isn't interested. Would Rob have beaten her? who knows. But it wouldn't have been an issue because they were anywhere on par with each other, it would have been because the entire jury had the combined IQ of a slug. Lowering someone's value at all because they didn't make it to the final 3 or win is completely asinine, sometimes crazy **** happens at the end because 95% of survivor contestants are ******s (e.g. tina beat colby) and a couple F3 challenges have been super dumb. There have been many worthless people who floated to the end doing nothing and then overachieved in the final vote, I mean ffs SUSIE was 1 vote away from winning survivor gabon, SUSIE!! Final 3s are good because every time they'd had them the best remaining player has won. Unless you don't want the best remaining player to win (which is fine if you don't), I don't see how any logical, rational person can argue against a final 3. For the person that said final 3s don't create drama, umm are you ****ing high, did you not see the 1 vote difference in cook islands, did you not see one of the most bitter/angry juries in gabon?

/angry rant

"some degree of result-oriented thinking is necessary too"
did I just read this in a poker forum??

space janitor, so i guess you're the guy that thinks phil ivey's god status is diminished because his AK lost to AQ huh? or that allen cunningham isn't as good as perceived because he couldn't outrace jamie "i said top top" gold?

being results oriented is bad in general but even much more ******ed in a game like this. there is SOO much situational luck and SOO many things out of your control. your first objective is to get yourself to the end (ideally you don't want to needlessly be a dick to people in the process, see todd vs. sugar for example, but getting there should be your priority), once you're there you just have to hope your jury isn't too bitter/dumb to be convinced that you played the best game and deserve it over whatever worthless floater that you chose to carry to the end with you and didn't do anything in the game.

After thinking about it a little more, I agree with everything you say except this. I guess it really isn't right for me to judge Cesternino for not winning, he probably had a 2:1 shot at winning before the last challenge; that would be like Ivey losing the deciding all-in heads up with AKs vs AJs in the main event, how could I fault him for that?

But, I thought Tina was definitely a deserving winner. What did Colby ever do except rock the challenges?

eta: funny that TLY brings the almost exact same example that I thought of. Yes, I accept having been wrong on this.

not sure if faking having the idol is a good idea. in fact i think the only time he should 'fake' having it is if he actually does have it. he kept it secret last time against the galu's. why would he all of a sudden claim to have it this time. only as a ploy to make them think he has it but they should be able to read into that. if he actually finds it and claims to have it, there's no way they'll believe him.

if by win you mean his group of 5 wins a rock contest vs. other group of 5. however if you just mean he doesn't get voted out this isn't true. also say someone like john switches over and it becomes 6-4. i wouldn't count russ in top 5 in the group of 6 either. there could easily be some more switched from there.

Soncy is always good at this thread, but I disagree a little here--Shambo is crummy at survivor. Socially, if she's not the center of attention she gets mopey until she figures out another reward item to lose. Tactically, she's an atrocious liar, her idea of subtle body language is Marlee Matlin having an argument. She's this year's clear favorite for Most Likely to be Sanctimoniously Belittled at F3 jury.

I know people like Shambo, I think you'd be surprised how well she's aware of what other people think of her, she just doesn't let it affect how she interacts that much.
She's a terrible liar, and she's not smart in the usual sense, but don't be fooled into thinking she doesn't know that herself and that she doesn't know whether people are nice or just taking advantage of her.

oh, people definitely like her, just not in Samoa. I wonder if she has a shot at fan favorite? Hard year to predict fan favorite, each major candidate has a trait that irritates significant USA voting blocs, we have Russell (too smug), Laura (too palin), Jaison (too tan), Natalie (too minty julepy), Dave (too dangerous). I guess the smart money is backing Natalie (?), but Shambo has a shot. And if Laura wins then we're worse off than I thought.

No, I meant I know people who are like Shambo, sorry for the confusion.