I think one additional characteristic of an alpha male is that the rest of the pack see you as being "in charge". In other words, acting like an alpha male doesn't necessarily make you one.

BRob on RI had to be the single best example bar none. Not only was he fully in charge, everyone knew he was in charge and deferred to him.

In that same sense, Matt was clearly not an alpha male this season cause in the end noone deferred to him, even though he was clearly trying to be the alpha, which he's probably successful at irl as a lawyer running a private practice.

In the corporate world that I spend my days at, there are plenty of alphas that come along. Generally they will rise until they run up against a more powerful alpha, and then end up either in another department or another company altogether.

I think a true alpha can win, but they are so vulnerable to bitter juries or being targeted as a manipulator that I think it's clearly way sub-optimal to attempt that path.

Not trying to derail the alpha male discussion .. but I rewatched the preview for the next episode:

Does tribe swap usually occur in episode 4 or 5? A swap while they all still live on the same beach has potential for lols

Episode 5

Our discussion about episode 3 is up. Additionally, we're recording an interview with Albert in about two hours, so look for that to be up sometime soon as well.

Find the new episode HERE.

Sup, this is my first post in the board but I've been lurking here since Nicaragua and finally decided to post because I find this alpha male discussion really interesting.

IMO Todd/JT are not alpha males. Alpha, to me, means in control, being dominant, the clear leader and head honcho. JT was lead on a string by Stephen, he was told what to do, who to approach, what was the right move, etc. My memory of Tocantins is kinda hazy but that seems right. JT was perceived to be the bigger player for some odd reason but he def wasn't.

Todd... honestly I'll say Amanda was ahead of him by 1 or 2 steps most of the game. And that Todd/Amanda/Courtney alliance didn't really have a clear leader, none of them have a "dominating" personality to me.

Alphas - Tom Westman, Boston Rob, Terry Deitz, Lex, and Sean from Marquesas could be an alpha if he was thinking strategically. There's some other examples but I can't think of them right now.

Another ridiculous one liner from Colton in that preview

What about Earl Cole?

Didn't watch CI-Fiji and from what I heard it was a wise choice.

the alpha strategy that I think blows isn't a strategy so much as a calling:

IRON FIST STRATEGY
-make sure everyone knows you are the leader from Day One
-make sure!
-walk around camp with your best Mount Rushmore face at all times
-hey is that backtalk? Allow me to introduce you to the IRON FIST
-view each confessional as an opportunity to quote from Art of War
-voted off premerge? It's because you're a threat!

Iron fist doesn't work. Benevolent dictator sometimes works, but it's tough because there's such a conspicuous target on your back postmerge.

The people who suck are the people who lead because they think that ever being seen as a follower is a character flaw. They think: "Would John Wayne be taking orders? Would the Brawny Towel Man? Nope! And Matt Quinlan's no chump!" I swear to god if Matt Quinlan ever gets picked to be on a jury in real life, and if the other jury members for some reason don't make him the foreman, then Matt Quinlan isn't going to be able to get it up for three months afterwards not even with his best iron fist.

Hey here's a question, how many jerks have ever won survivor? (And RI Rob doesn't count, he wasn't a dick on RI)

rofl.

Does being a jerk only in confessionals count?

No way, CI and Fiji are two of my favorites.

Fiji is hands down in my funniest seasons list.

This is pretty key. There is a big difference between being the alpha and acting alpha. And the best example of this is Coach. In Tocantins he battled Brendan for the alpha role but his tribe never thought of him as the leader. On the villains tribe he became the quintessential beta male while Rob and Russell battled it out. But last season he finally became the alpha male and I think it was simply because he was a returning player. If Coach was playing for the first time last season I think Albert assumes the alpha role and we don't get to see Coach dragging people to their knees to credit God.

I don't think forcefully trying to control and dominate is necessary to be an alpha. I think JT, Tom and Yul were alpha in the fact that they were so respected that the people around them started playing irrationally to gain favour with them. Examples would be Coach aligning with JT and Ian giving Tom a million dollars. I also think the main thing that makes an alpha in Survivor is just being seen as the leader of the tribe. I've just been rewatching some Tocantins and before the merge Joe has a confessional where he says that JT is the alpha male and Sydney says something similar.

I think it is actually +EV to be an alpha male. For me Richard, Brian, Tom, Yul, Earl, JT, Rob and maybe Todd would classify as alpha male winners. Other than Todd I think they were all originally seen as the leader of their tribes. I am not quite sure if I would describe Todd as alpha. I think he is quite happy for someone like Aaron to take the leadership role but he was always in a position of power.

So that's my input for the alpha debate. Now to listen to some DAC.

They are both quite good.

I think one of my favourite storylines of all time was Candice repeatedly getting sent to exile. It made me so happy every time she cried.

I watched Fiji earlier this year and had trepidations because people kept saying it was bad. I actually thought it was really good. Some pretty big characters, satisfying winner and quite a few good lols. And Michelle Yi.

I wouldn't consider Brian an alpha. The great part about his game was he hid how much control he had. He was seen as the leader of his tribe, but he was not seen as being in charge.

That's a good way to put it.

Excellent.

If Heidik isn't an alpha, no one is. Maybe I define it differently than most people, though.

Not sure when, but it HAS to happen this year. Guys being swapped and shipped over to the ****ty shelter is going to be interesting

Yeah, Brian was definitely Alpha. He hid his motivations well but everyone on the show knew he was the leader of that tribe.

Aras was kind of a huge douchebag (telling Melinda/Cirie they were next to go, insinuating Bruce is immature and just generally talking down to people) but he covered it well.

He'd be like... "hey you're kind of annoying people so what I want you to do is just be quiet and everything will be fine, k?"

Yeah I think being too much of a jerk tends to hurt your chances at FTC... although Sophie wasn't the most pleasant of women and she just won

I'd say Chris was a jerk.