The cops were responding to another matter - a gunshot wound reported by the hospital.

Am I the only one who wants Shane and Mara to get away? I've always liked Shane - like every one of us, he has had his reasons to do what he's done - same as Vic. Now, he's protecting his family, while Vic is protecting himself, and Ronnie his job.

So yeah....I'm on Shane's side.

There is no justification for killing Lem. That was unforgivable, stupid, and forever branded him as the bad guy.

i'm not saying it was a wise decision, but he thought he was doing the right thing by the rest of the guys. He's a **** up. I still like him a lot more than I like Vic.

wow i forgot how amazing that is

I agree, but from his POV, Lem was going to talk IIRC. Cavanaugh gave fake intel indicating that Lem was going to release information for a lighter sentence and transfer to min-security prison. Again, I may have this wrong but that was how I remembered it.

exactly. there is no difference between Shane killing Lem and Vic killing Terry. At least Shane was in anguish over his actions.

If he had done the sensible thing and at least discussed it with Vic and Ronnie before he did it, they would have straightened him out. But he didn't tell them because a large part of him knew it was a horrible thing to do.

A lot of horrible people in this world have done horrible things because "they thought they were doing the right thing." It doesn't make them sympathetic. Of course I think Shane is more sympathetic than most villains, mostly because Goggins is such an incredible actor, but there's no way I can be on his side after he kills Lem.

Sure, but you could say the same thing about Vic. He does horrible things because he thinks it's the right thing to do, yet he's sympathetic IMO. I never thought Shane was sympathetic until this season, though. You're right, he specifically didn't consult with them because he knew they would talk him out of it. But I think it was because he believed that they would be blinded to the 'correct' choice by their loyalty to Lem. So he made the "tough but correct" decision for them.

not quite. Terry was brand new to the group, and coming from an antagonistic position (IA). Lem was a brother, and then had the "possibility" of going south on them, and even then only by assuming the worst. They had reason to trust Lem. No reason to trust Terry, and in fact, every reason for the opposite.

Oh, and Dom, you're nuts. Shane be dyin' for real and I'll pop a bottle in honor of it.

I definitely disagree with this. Terry was a newcomer whom Vic knew was informing on the Strike Team. Vic killed him for what he had done and was currently doing.

Lem was "family" and Shane only suspected he was going to rat them out in exchange for a deal, based on something Kavanaugh said. Shane killed him for what he might do in the future.

It speaks to the general difference between Vic and Shane. Vic (generally) takes action when he is sure of the situation and Shane flies by the seat of his pants without considering potential pitfalls or looking at the big picture (Mitchell, the Armenians, and killing Lem).

I miss the old days.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgHd5vKFXAo

Spin off show would be class..dunno with who tho

hahahaha....at least we all agree how incredible this show has been. The fact the characters all have shades of gray and aren't 100% bad or good says it all.

I agree with everything here...but I'm talking from Shane's POV, not from our omniscient POV as a viewer. In Shane's head - it was the right thing to do - he felt he was stepping up to the plate by "doing what Vic would've done." He wasn't right, but I understand his motivations.

Plus, like Joker said, Goggins plays Shane so sympathetically I can't help but pull for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4SBV...eature=related

seriously. Any show where you can have legitimate points on polar opposite arguments is sublime cinema.

However, Vic knew for a fact that Terry was a plant. Shane didn't know Lem was going to flip.

Best part about it is that the two situations are close, but are dissimilar enough to highlight how Vic and Shane are different. It's such a perfect literary device to explore a character. It's not cheap, and it's not pulled hastily for an episode. It's a slow simmer to a conclusion that relates all the way back to the beginning of the show. Such a ****ing great show.

Damn! Didn't even realize until watching that clip (great editing, btw), that when he walks up close to him and says sorry that Lem is still alive. wow

Edit:

It also kills me when Lem gets the sandwich. The way he smiles and says "ahh" is just so Lem-like. So Innocent.

I always felt like killing Terry was somewhat out of line for Vic's character. I think it was done in the pilot episode in order to set a tone and show Vic as the anti-hero in a shocking manner. They wanted to show that the Shield was unlike any previous police drama, and killing Terry accomplished that with a bang.

Of all the things Vic did later, nothing remotely compares to the cold blooded murder of a fellow cop, and I don't think the incident fits in with Vic's character, even in Season 1. So I look at the Terry incident as something of an aberration, and I don't fully factor it in when evaluating Vic, or Vic vs. Shane.

Agreed. Vic always managed to find crafty ways out of situations with him coming out on top while still leaving everyone clueless as to how they lost the advantage so quickly. That's why Vic is so amazingly awesome. With Terry he didn't even attempt to evade and craft a situation where Terry would be kicked off the team without arousing suspicion, and there are definitely ways possible. Seemed like a weird thing to do given his actions after that point.

Then again, you really do see some of the old Vic coming out in this season. He's pretty vicious when attacked personally and will not let trivial things like morals get in the way of him protecting his own. For example, you'd think Vic would find a way to spare Mara, but he wants blood straight up -- this is the kind of Vic who would kill Terry. I just didn't see that in him for like 5 seasons.

Also, no one is mentioning the fact that Vic took the passport. He's got himself a way out of the country now. With Corrine refusing to let him see the kids and ICE not panning out, he may look to jet soon.

I have no problems with the death of Shane and Mara except for Jackson. That's f'ed up. I don't know how you live with yourself when that kid grows up.

It's amazing how much things have spiraled out of control and how much Shane is at fault in all of this. If he hadn't have gone to Antwan then absolutely none of the bad things that have happened would've. For however much Shane kind of regrets his actions now and seems rather likable, you've always got to remember that Lem wouldn't have ever had his life screwed up if not for Shane (and obviously wouldn't be dead if not for Shane, but the point is Shane put him in the position in the first place too).


Think we'll get a cameo appearance by Glenn Close? I'd like that -- if anyone knows if that's coming, don't spoil please. That'd be pretty sweet to close it out though.

This show is ending so well its unreal. Every episode is so good. I cant believe it is almost over. I think I might just sell my TV!

I agree the ass kicking days rocked.

I agree as well.

This montage (specifically one scene), was the one that put The Shield in to my all-time favorite echelon. They took the love triangle that had acted as the comic relief all season, and ended it in a most horrific way. We were laughing at these dumb Jerry Springer-ish people, but then we got to see what happens when reality takes over. What we thought was funny from the outside, was entirely unfunny to these guys until one took it too far. And we, as the audience, were left feeling gross for laughing at their lives.

When this occurred, it was cemented in my head that this show was going to continue to be great for a long time.


Also... this new episode was incredible! Once again, things continue to spin out of control for Vic and he continues to look more and more pathetic with each attempt to hold onto the power he thinks he once had. This episode seemed to be the semi-calm before the storm, as we had almost good-byes with Mara and Shane, Vic in a semi-reconciliation with his daughter, and Dutch losing and then possibly regaining the trust of the SK's mom, Aceveda getting punked, but at the same establishing more trust with Pezuela. The pins are set-up... let's see how they get knocked down!

There was a great ending to one of the episodes (I can't remember if it was a season ender) where it was just a pissed off Vic walking the streets with "Will You Smile Again?" in the background. I can't find it on youtube, goddamnit.

I'm with you, I root pretty hard for Shane. Its also important to realize that Vic isn't innocent in the bad decisions Shane has made. He helped create what Shane is and what he thinks is right and wrong. A lot of the decisions he makes is based on whatever warped rationale Vic taught him.

Vic is the chaos of the show, Shane is just another one of the people who was changed negatively by it. And I think that is as big of a theme as any other in the show over its run.

FX has a bunch of videos with the whole cast talking about the show

http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/orig...ternals/Videos

click on roundtable and watch through them