***Official*** LOST Final Season Discussion, Episode 4 - Page 18

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***Official*** LOST Final Season Discussion, Episode 4

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02-17-2010 , 09:05 PM

#426

bsidensol

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 171

so then I guess it was the MIB, not Jacob, that told Locke to move the island?

MIB tells Sawyer the island doesn't need protecting. Assuming he's telling the truth why would he want it moved? I guess to set his plan in motion to come back as Flocke and kill Jacob?

02-17-2010 , 09:42 PM

#427

Neue Regel

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 645

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynasty

Does anybody have good ideas on why the kid's arms are bloody?

symbolism that MiB was responsible for jacob's death?

02-17-2010 , 09:45 PM

#428

Golden_Rhino

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Neue Regel

symbolism that MiB was responsible for jacob's death?

Then wouldn't the blood be on MIB's hands?

02-17-2010 , 09:54 PM

#429

Kirbynator

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Quote:

Originally Posted by baumer

When the kid told Flocke he "can't kill him", I thought for sure he was talking about Jacob and that Jacob will find a way to come back, or the rules will punish Flocke.

I didn't even consider Richard or Sawyer.

same

02-17-2010 , 10:01 PM

#430

[Phill]

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Quote:

so then I guess it was the MIB, not Jacob, that told Locke to move the island?

There is no reason to think it wasnt Smoky at this point.

He was told by Christian at the cabin and we are assuming at this point Christian was always smoky and the cabin never had Jacob in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gondolin

Do we know for sure whether Ben was on the sub (like Ethan and Miles) or not?

And Charlotte.

Best i can tell without finding and rewatching the episode is that Ben was still with the Others at the time the bomb went off. Ethan we assume was on the sub though it was never mentioned. Miles and Charlotte definitely were.

02-17-2010 , 10:04 PM

#431

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden_Rhino

Then wouldn't the blood be on MIB's hands?

Well, Ben's hands to be more literal.

The fact that there is no info on the kid's page on lostpedia tells you all you need to know.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mysterious_kid

Namely, we dont even know enough to even speculate details beyond wild guesses. It is however telling that Smoky was shocked that Sawyer could see him.

02-17-2010 , 10:08 PM

#432

wholecut

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynasty

Does anybody have good ideas on why the kid's arms are bloody?

b/c he was crucified?

lots of Jesus references lately, I dunno

02-17-2010 , 10:11 PM

#433

wholecut

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,134

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyhappyhappy

Damn that is terrible.

I had meant to thank you for linking him, I used to read him after ... NHL 94 av linked him last year. I enjoyed him but forgot a bunch of names during the hiatus.

Hopefully he comes out ok, great that no one was hurt.

sounds corny, but the guy has given me so much to think about, and I doubt he makes much...and given his awful situation, I figured the least I could do was buy his book on Lost.

so I did.

and I'll write a good review

02-17-2010 , 10:16 PM

#434

mjw0586

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wholecut

lots of Jesus references lately, I dunno

lol?

02-17-2010 , 10:33 PM

#435

wholecut

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,134

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw0586

lol?

it's been hammered over our heads lately I should say, more than it had been.

"Locke" and "Sayid" rising from the dead
Sayid being pulled from the spring like Jesus. etc

02-17-2010 , 10:33 PM

#436

wesrwood

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 22,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

There is no reason to think it wasnt Smoky at this point.

He was told by Christian at the cabin and we are assuming at this point Christian was always smoky and the cabin never had Jacob in it.

And Charlotte.

Best i can tell without finding and rewatching the episode is that Ben was still with the Others at the time the bomb went off. Ethan we assume was on the sub though it was never mentioned. Miles and Charlotte definitely were.

Didnt Ben go back with Dharma for a few years until the purge?

02-17-2010 , 10:35 PM

#437

spatchpatch

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden_Rhino

Then wouldn't the blood be on MIB's hands?

Maybe the kid is young MIB.

02-17-2010 , 10:36 PM

#438

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wesrwood

Didnt Ben go back with Dharma for a few years until the purge?

Yes. He was a Workman with his dad, before he killed him ~early 90s or so.

02-17-2010 , 10:38 PM

#439

spatchpatch

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by isukatpkr

Lepidus is still a candidate as well

They only said he might be a candidate. I figure Ilana and her team actually don't know much about Jacob's plans.

02-17-2010 , 10:39 PM

#440

spatchpatch

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicken10der

and if you're not going to say anything, don't bait us in with stuff like the "i'll tell you everything" line

Flocke tried this approach on two different people. I think it's more reasonable that it's Flocke's strategy than the writers'. At least that's what I'm choosing to believe.

02-17-2010 , 10:45 PM

#441

spatchpatch

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assani Fisher

There absolutely has to be a reason why they won't tell us his name....maybe he is a character we already know and it'll be a big reveal.

It's possible that he just doesn't have a name.

02-17-2010 , 10:45 PM

#442

spatchpatch

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Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooncesDC

Hmm, nobody is talking much about what I thought was the most significant part of the episode - the O6 being correlated directly with the Numbers. My first thought when I saw this was that they actually ARE the numbers, or like the physical manifestation of them. If I am remembering correctly from the first off-season, the numbers are the result of the Venzetti equation and that particular sequence of numbers represents the end of the world or something. I also think I remember that the purpose of the Dharma initiative was to conduct experiments to try to change what came out of the equation, or change the numbers to try to save the world. If the O6 are the numbers then the key would be for them to change to save the world. This would tie into the producers saying the show was about redemption. It seems we are actually seeing this in the alt timeline. In the original timeline all of the O6 are pretty much miserable with major issues - Jack with his lack of confidence and daddy issues, Hurley believing he his cursed, Sawyer a conman, etc. In the alt timeline it appears they are redeeming themselves - Hurley is confident and believes he is lucky, Locke in this episode seemed to come to peace with himself, Kate helped Claire instead of only looking out for herself. I think in future flash-sideways we'll see the rest of the O6 resolve their issues. This redemption has changed the equation. My theory is the original timeline is going to end in disaster and the end of that timeline when MiB escapes the island. That will leave the alt timeline as the only timeline and the true reality. MiB will believe he has won but he has already lost because Jack setting off the bomb "worked" and created the other reality where the world is saved.

Perhaps Jacob didn't know the O6 were the numbers until they reached the island. Maybe he's been drawing people to the island for centuries looking for these particular six but the others never worked out (possibly due to MiB interference?). Or maybe Jacob and MiB know how it is foretold to end and Jacob has been drawing people who he thought might be able to change things. Free will seems to be a theme of the show so maybe they had to choose to change things without Jacob's interference and that's what finally happened with the bomb.

I also think the Rule is that not only can Jacob and MiB not kill each other but neither can their people. So Ben and Widmore can't kill each other because they are on opposite sides. It would also explain why Dogan needed Jack to give the poison pill to Sayid. Sayid had been claimed by MiB so Dogan and the others, as Jacob's people, couldn't kill him ... but Jack could. It would also be why Ben had Sayid kill off Widmore's people instead of doing any of it himself.

This will all of course probably be invalidated by next week's episode but I kind of hope this is how it goes down. It would bring the numbers back and relevant and would in fact show that they had a plan from the beginning. The "Lost is a game" thing seems lame and I hope that's not close.

One of the best theories I've read so far.

02-17-2010 , 10:46 PM

#443

[Phill]

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wesrwood

Didnt Ben go back with Dharma for a few years until the purge?

In the original timeline, yes.

The question was whether he was on the sub and left then, asking in a roundabout way if everyone we have seen from the Others was off the island when the bomb went off, and thus if the bomb killed everyone on the island.

So in the alt timeline, assuming it carries on at the split from the bomb going off then Ben was with the Others, survived with an unknown number of Others, and then later he left the island at some point before the island "sunk".

02-17-2010 , 10:50 PM

#444

[Phill]

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It falls down with Ben and Widmore. Their rules cannot directly follow the rules of Smoky and Jacob as both of them are Jacob's people at the time we learnt that. Their powerplay and its rules are formed independently of the Jacob and Smoky rules as we are given to believe that neither knew about the Smoke or the rules behind what is happening in a wider sense.

You know what i dont get. Jack wasnt on Jacob's list, however he is one of the Candidates. Seems a weird contradiction on the face of it.

02-17-2010 , 10:56 PM

#445

kap arai

adept

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 888

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynasty

OMG!!!

White Smoke Monster is clearly visible!!!

and hurley is in black/navy while locke is in white! jacob = bad, mib = good!!!

02-17-2010 , 11:01 PM

#446

agdci981

banned

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10,081

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

You know what i dont get. Jack wasnt on Jacob's list, however he is one of the Candidates. Seems a weird contradiction on the face of it.

What list? Are you basing this off what "Mr. Friendly" said?

02-17-2010 , 11:08 PM

#447

donniccolo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexM

It looks like the replayed episode might have wrong information sometimes. The replay of the Kate episode said that the look she gave Jack near the beginning was because she recognized him from the plane, which seems extraordinarily unlikely since this episode is all about showing that they're remembering things from before.

pretty sure this is wrong. they are not remembering things from before. the enhanced version said that this is what happens if 815 lands normally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLad72

Locke in alt timeline lives with Peg Bundy.. They discuss marriage.. the end

can't believe i didn't know that was peg bundy. epic fail me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulieWlnuts

gonna be some bull**** religious ending

no. please no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden_Rhino

The one thing that will drive me nuts until the day I die: Where the **** did the DHARMA food drops come from?

hanso foundation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngerPush

The wall doesn't say "Jack", it says "Shephard" which could be referring to Christian.

good thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidcolin

cuz kate's a bitch.

another good thought

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie.Dont.Surf

so are we gonna assume that Sawyer is pulling a long con on MIB throughout season 6?

hopefully...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim14Qc

don't be a hater bro - obv i was joking hence why i said (obv brag).

the more i watch now the more i think the show is going out of its way to make us think that MiB is benevolent... which i think may not be the case.

the pov smokey scene w/ the ratata was awesome imo.

02-17-2010 , 11:17 PM

#448

AlexM

ignored

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 20,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by donniccolo

don't be a hater bro - obv i was joking hence why i said (obv brag).

You repeatedly said things about yourself that have nothing to do with Lost and that no one in this thread has any reason to care about. Adding (obv brag LOL) to your self-promotion doesn't make it any less self-promotion.

02-17-2010 , 11:36 PM

#449

TheHip41

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLad72

Locke in alt timeline lives with Peg Bundy.. They discuss marriage.. the end

can't believe i didn't know that was peg bundy. epic fail me.

all this tells me is Katey Segal is one of the best actresses in the last 20 years on TV

also, after watching her as Peggy, then Gemma for the last two years, it's weird seeing her playing a normal person