A point I forgot was that a different choice with showing us the history would have allowed them to juggle the science and faith aspect a little more before pulling back to faith for good.

This would have been great with the Egyptian curtain opening. We could have seen them figure out some of the scientific properties of the island (traversing the barrier for starters), settling in, see a statue's foundation in progress. Then show a little of their religion so we can at least compare something to the Christianity they didn't realize they bludgeoned us over the head with.

You could do all of this within three episodes tops and keep your S6 storyline.

So, in sum: pace, Beginning of the Island, and Egyptians.

was Juliet part of JJs ending? she was in the church, no? and we're told that everyone in the church was part of JJs ending?

was the Sawyer-Juliet romance planned from S1?

unlikely

HHH I take it you liked 2001?

Honestly I think that Across the Sea should have been episode 2, which would make everybody about the flash-sideways for another week. Then they could have added smokey flashbacks to the season too.

I did. I've only watched it once through, however. Are you referring to just the opening scenes...I don't remember those being all that ambiguous if that is what you mean?


edit - i always took a perfectly rectangular tablet to be something that bestowed intelligence to some degree upon us from an even higher intelligence, either by accident or on purpose (hell, or just seeing a rectangle for the first time).

Actually I think more to your point, it's not a repeat of that, you have to tie it into the Egyptians at some point (someone early has to break the barrier), because it's LOST and we're going for the greatest thing that has ever been shown on television.

Someone early on had to figure out (no wait, just tinker with for our entertainment) the scientific properties to some degree.

It does lie on us in the sense that they do not owe us anything. They gave us 6 solid seasons of awesomeness. Who am I to expect the greatest thing ever from something as fickle as a television show production?

Maybe after some digestion I'll realize whatever it is I'll realize that makes it better, but I felt myself agreeing with a lot of the dull feelings throughout all the posts in the threads for most of the episodes this season. And nothing will ever change that lack of feeling from what I had come to expect. Even if after thinking about it for a few years it does become even better in my mind.

hhh, your story was a classic case of 2001 Arthur C Clark. Wouldn't fit in this story, been done before, followed by 2010: Odyssey Two, then 2061: Odyssey Three, and finished with 3001: The Final Odyssey

Agreed on this. If this had happened a little earlier and maybe a couple more episodes of the backstory between MiB and Jacob and we would have cared more about their fight.

The only thing is I think in terms of the structure of the season, Across the Sea had to come after Ab Aeterno. And to squeeze both of these episodes immediately after the season premiere would probably have felt kinda awkward.

I kinda wish they just added a Smokey-centric flashback after Across the Sea (assuming it came slightly earlier in the season). It could span his whole tenure on the island, starting with how he got the donkey wheel built and leading up to his manipulation of Ben and the Others, as well as the Oceanic people. I always thought it would have been cool to go back and see events that went down in the Pilot episode or Jacob's cabin through Smokey's perspective.

I guess that boils down to what makes an omnipotent being all-knowing. I've always thought it would have to do with not traveling thru space-time like the rest of us. Such a being would be at all points in space and all points in time(or space-time just doesn't exist the same way for an omnipotent being, idk, w/e). In this scenario I don't see how knowing our decision affects our ability to make said decision freely.

If the being knows what choices we'll make because we're just complex biological machines and they can deduce which decisions we'll make before we make them then I guess I agree with you. I think, given what we know about quantum mechanics and probability, it's much more likely that it's impossible to deduce ones future actions, regardless of technology, intelligence nor omnipotence.


I also think it's pretty silly for most philosophers to ponder such things without advanced study in the sciences.

again, the insider email is a fake.

the only thing anyone associated with the show claimed to know from the beginning was what the final image would be, which was jack closing his eye (as a matter of symmetry). that is entirely generic and could be plugged into any plot. the idea that the church/purgatory ending involving only characters from S1 was planned from the beginning is fan-embellished fiction.

in fact it is known that at the beginning jj had no plans for the show to be about metaphysical stuff. that all came from darlton.

if our future is fixed there has to be some level of determinism involoved. viewing that from a perspective "outside" of our time doesn't change that.

that's the smartest thing anyone has ever said here

hehe, tough thing to talk about because it's near impossible for us to really "get" what it means to be in all places and all times. Personally, I don't think it means our future is fixed. I'm not anywhere near qualified enough to try and explain my thoughts, and I could certainly be wrong.

Alright, I'm done waying in on the finale via analysis, so I thought I might dumb it down and make my Lost List of favorites and fails. Feel free to quote and do the same (please do!).


Favorite Season
Season 4 is by far my favorite, although, it is hard to compare to the other seasons, as it is so short, and therefore has very little filler. The pace accelerated greatly in season 4, it had the very best episode and the very best individual scene both of which were incredibly moving. It also had absurd amounts of badassitude (The Economist, The Shape of Things to Come) and the most action packed two hours of the show in the Season Finale.

My overall season rankings go 4>2=1>>5=3>6

Best Ep:
The Constant. Doubt anything needs to be said here.

Best Scene
Alex's Execution: This scene is so powerful, perfectly acted, and incredibly edited. It still gives me chills every time I see it.

Favorite Main Character:
This is a very difficult choice for me. While, I rooted most consistently throughout the show for Desmond and Sawyer, I actually think Jack/Locke/Flocke are the most interesting, and the best acted characters on the show. I changed my opinion of Jack and Locke so much, they had the most depth, and were quite obviously the characters the writers were most invested in... Since, I relate heavily to Jack on many levels, and very lil with Locke, I will go with him.

Worst Main Character:
Doubt it has to be said, but Kate by a marathon. Obviously, like most, I loved Kate until "What Kate Did", and still was interested for a lil while, until she started chasing after people, and we realized she was a cold bitch. It's hard to put a finger on exactly why she is so despicable, because she actually was pretty useful at many different instances (****ed **** up a bit, too), but I def spent the last half of the series wanting her to die at every possible moment.

Favorite Secondary Character
This is a tie for me between Danielle and Nadia. I remember being rather disappointed when each of them was killed, and I thought they were both well acted, esp Nadia, and I enjoyed their suffering. Eloise would have been my favorite if they had developed her more, I am sure. Man, Keamy and Penny are up there, too... actually they might win... Lost had a phenomenal supporting cast with probably more acting talent than the main cast... I mean... what about Christian?

Worst Secondary Character
It's almost cheating to say Nikki and Paulo, so I will say Widmore, only because they handled him so terribly, and it was a horrid waste of acting talent and storyline potential.

Best Season Premiere:
Season 2 "Man of Science Man of Faith". This episode is completely electric. Matthew Fox gives a phenomenal performance both on island and in the flashback where he is at odds with his father regarding Sarah's surgery... and... DESMOND!

Ranking goes 2>1>>5=4>6>>>3

Best Season Finale:
This is like ****ing impossible. Every finale is absolutely amazing, and I think I would have to pick "The Incident" or "The Shape of Things to Come" as my favorite. It has been so long since I have seen "Live Together Die Alone", tho, that I am really not sure. I think the obv pick is "Through The Looking Glass" and that is prob the best one, but I love when Ben is pushing the Frozen Donkey Wheel and when Juliet is smashing Jughead so much... Idk... finales were all the best.

Best Love Stories:

• Penny and Desmond: Don't think I need to say anything here.
• Sawyer and Juliet: I was pretty cynical about this at first, but their on screen chemistry is fantastic, imo, and I liked how the dynamic changed when jack, kate, etc showed up. Fantastic scenes when they are being interrogated by the DI, when Juliet gets pulled in to the pocket, and they had the best awakening by far in the end. I really believed they were soulmates, unlike many of the other couples.
• Sun and Jin: Ya, so their characters might suck air a bit, but the story is pretty Shakespearean, tragic enough, and despite how annoying they could be, I obv believed in their love.
• Bernard and Rose: I mean, Rose is a G, and despite their characters lacking depth, in the end, they pretty much represent the essence of the show.

Worst Love Stories:

• Sayid and Shannon: I almost gave up on lost because of this storyline; it angered me that much. They are both despicable people, which would be ok, but their scenes were so incredibly cheesy and they provided the most cringe inducing moment of the entire series.
  
• Jack and Kate: Probably cuz kate (or maybe it is Evie?) is so awful, but I just never bought it. It made sense on paper, but there was no on screen chemistry, here, and I just never cared if they were together. I would have preferred if Jack had awoken because of Locke, in the end. Their relationship was infinitely more interesting than Jate.

Most Cringe Inducing Moment:
Sayid Helping Shannon with her "things". This scene is painful. Sayid gets all emo, cheeseball talking about shannon's clothes as some ******ed metaphor for her past. It is completely laughable.



That's all for now, cuz I gotta hit the road... sorry about all the sloppiness in this post... add more topics and fill it out yourself, imo!

thanks!

thanks - how do we know for certain its a fake? (besides whoever writing it would be in a ton of isht if it were real)

Lost is Cat's Cradle for religious types. In Cat's Cradle, the 'fate' aspect is acknowledged throughout, and by every character, even Bokonon himself, to be bull****. Despite that, it organizes itself very neatly with the main characters fitting into the karass, with their fates intertwined. A destructive force created by a naive rational mind that, if released from the island, will destroy the whole world. There are a lot of parallels.

I guess if some of you haven't read Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle I won't continue the spoilers. But it really seems like a shorter version of Lost written for people like me, that don't buy into spiritual crap.

I really don't get the hate for Kate, especially the notion that it's shared by most Lost fans. Please elaborate.

I never thought Sayid was a despicable person and I think trying to judge someone in his shoes would be near impossible.

seeing kate in her bra again when i rewatched episode 1 took away all the kate hate i had

happyx3,

i def agree that when they started to go back in time they needed to reveal more. one of my favorite moments was when they flashed back and saw the statue intact. i was really pumped because 1. when the **** are they? and 2. this must mean we're gonna get some answers to how and who built the various ancient constructions.

damn you lost!

Season 1 Kate in the Season 6 dress would have been wonderful.

A+

nit alert: ultimately jack was woken from a combination of locke, kate, and finally, his father's coffin. i think they handled it appropriately, since ultimately his father was the driving force behind his reason for being on the island in the first place.

K so I hate Kate as much as the next guy, but c'mon. She doesn't look that much different than she did six years ago. Evangeline Lily is only 30 today.

She looked amazing in that dress and almost the identical to her s1 form. People don't age much from 24-30 imo.

yeah she's super hot

Also, anyone who thinks Sayid was evil is way off. The writers botched his character in s6, but all of his choices in the early seasons were made with good intentions and he later becomes bent out for revenge. IMO he is no more different than Jack Bauer, and everybody LOOOOOOVES Bauer and think he is justified in everything he does. Just doesn't make sense that so many think this way.