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***Official*** LOST: The End. ***Official*** LOST: The End.

05-24-2010 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiloDanglers
This.

There is NO WAY I would ever watch this show again.
Agree 100%. Lost could have been the most epic show for rewatching. I guess that is why many ppl dislike the unanswered questions.

Maybe this is why I am biased. I never rewatch shows unless they are classic 30 minute sitcoms on TV.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 09:37 PM
Something I found on another site:

Here's an explanation of the finale that was supposedly written by one of the writers.

Quote:
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Sheik
I guess I'll throw out my opinion of season 6 and the show as a whole.

Personally, while season 6 was good, it was a total wasted opportunity and I don't really understand how that happened. S1-s5 had a lot of continuity to it and by the end of s5 I felt like I knew which direction the show was going to go in, but it's like they threw away 5 seasons worth of storylines and started from scratch on s6.

I understood there would be a lot of questions unanswered, but why abandon them altogether. We have 5 seasons of Dharma Initiative stories, but then barely mention them in s6. Why develop this whole Widmore vs Linus thing and lead it nowhere or the Others vs Dharma. It would've been much better if they showed that the Others were always on Team Jacob and the Dharma Initiative was always on Team Smokey (or vice versa) and the castaways were caught in between. Instead, no mention of the Others, or Dharma, or Ben vs. Widmore...nothing. It's almost as if they hired new writers just for s6 who decided to say "**** it" we're ignoring everything that brought us here and now we are going to spend precious time on introducing new characters (that went nowhere) and new story arcs for characters (that went nowhere) as opposed to wrapping up existing storylines. I can understand dramatic changes in the direction and quality of shows when they make drastic changes behind the scenes (i.e. when the head writer to Heroes left and all the things that made s1 great were abandoned for the remaining seasons), but Damon/Lindelof apparently had this all mapped out from either the beginning, or s3 at least. Apparently the only thing they really mapped out was the show starting Jack's eyeballs and ending on Jack's eyeballs.

I don't give a **** about Jack's imaginary son playing the piano, or Sawyer hooking up w/ Charlotte, or Sayid's brothers loansharking debts, or any of the other bull**** they put into the flash-sideways. Give me some ****ing continuity. I can see the writers sitting in a room and being "well we've done flashbacks and flashforwards, now lets do flash-sideways to show what an alternate universe would be like if they never crashed on the island, but in the end we'll pull a M. Night Shamalan and say that they were all dead anyways". Or they canvassed all the message boards out there, wrote down all the great theories people came up with and said "well we HAVE to surprise everybody and there's no way we can use an idea if somebody already posted a theory about it even if that was the direction we were going in, so instead let's just come up with new bull**** so we can shock them in the end" I would love to see there overall story mapping to see if it was really as splintered as it ended up being. I don't buy that they wrote themselves into any corners with the storylines, bc they are ****ing writers. It's their job to be creative and write themselves out. Look at all the theories on all the message boards out there. Most of those theories were better than what s6 was and they kept up the continuity and mythology of the show.

I also don't want to hear that this was ALWAYS a character driven show. Sure a lot of the reason people loved Lost was bc the characters were very well developed, but a main reason people loved the show was the mystery of what the hell was going on to those characters. What is the island? What are the numbers? Who are the Dharma Iniative? What will detonating the atom bomb really do? They always kept us on the edge of our seats by unveiling all these awesome mysteries and thats what kept most people coming back season after season. Don't give me 5 seasons of mysteries, then throw them all out the window and write it off as saying this was Jack's story about finding his way to heaven. That's complete bull****. This show was never only about Jack's story, only the finale was. Sure, Jack and Locke were the two main characters of the show, but they spent LOTS of time fleshing out these other characters only to abandon their story arcs.

I appreciate what s6 was and I dug the finale, but goddamn they wasted a perfect opportunity to finish this show as one of the best of all time. Look at The Wire for example. While s5 wasn't as good as some of the previous seasons, they wrapped up all the character story arcs neatly and were faithful to the history of the show. What if they decided to abandon Marlo and his gang altogether (never explaining what happened to them) for s5 and then spent the beginning of s5 introducing a new gang only to kill them all off after episode 4? Then they decided to make McNulty a sober family man, or make Omar and Kima "straight" and instead of the gangs being drug dealers, they were now secretly descendants of the Knights Templar looking for the Holy Grail underneath Camden Yards. Or what if the Sopranos abandoned the mobster side of Tony's life for all of s6 and instead focused on him and Christopher making a sequel to cleaver in 3D.


I'm glad that some of you loved the final season, but put me in the camp of enjoying it and not hating it, but very disappointed in what could've been.
EPIC RANT.

Awesome.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
I love that you act so condescending and arrogant here, yet the post right above yours is a link saying that one of the two writers agrees with you and one of the two writers agrees with me. But I guess in your world everyone who doesn't agree with you is "******ed", huh?
Pretty much. You cant even spell Widmore right.

Ive spelt Sayid as Saieed before and im pretty sure at one point i called Jin Jun when talking about him and Sun but i just dont get where you are finding that extra "a" in Widmore.

Im not really calling you a ******, im just saying you are saying ******ed stuff like how they shouldnt have ancillary characters and a supporting cast.

I mean in your list of unanswered questions you asked:

16. Why did Richard not age(but not have any other apparent powers)?
22. What exactly was "the loophole" that MiB used to have Jacob killed?

Like these are so ******edly basic i dont understand how anyone could ask them at this point in the shows history and both were specifically answered to the point you didnt even need to think about it. The time travel one where Ellie knew future events through the journal and let Faraday die requires very little thought.

Seriously, my problem ISNT that you disagree with me. Its the way you are phrasing that disagreement where you are dug in on points about how TV making work and how you expect the show to be perfect despite being made by imperfect people but further than that some of the stuff you want answering is so clearly answered that it would have detracted from the show to actually give any more detail.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 09:53 PM
That quote by iconoclastic is amazing.

Even if not actually by a real writer it is a great theory and wraps up a couple loose ends ive been having about the show.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetiver
"JK, alt-reality details were superfluous dreamlike nonsense and you were just in purgland now we're all going to a bright afterlife together" was not a meaningful resolution to me.
Nor to me. I was annoyed that the alt-timeline ended up having almost nothing to do with the island per se; it wasn't even really an alt-timeline, but was just the afterlife of the main characters, focusing on the drama of Jack's death on the island. And I thought this weird afterlife ended up just being a rather cheap emotional ploy to try to lend greater significance to Jack's sacrifice--and I thought that was unnecessary.
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05-24-2010 , 09:56 PM
"Lupidis"

Surely a writer on the show would not misspell Lapidus?

"spirtual"

"Whidmore"

Hmm, if this guy actually was on the show it would explain a lot.
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05-24-2010 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMa
"Lupidis"

Surely a writer on the show would not misspell Lapidus?

"spirtual"

"Whidmore"

Hmm, if this guy actually was on the show it would explain a lot.
Yeah, I caught that as well. Even a hack is a professional and proofs his work.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclastic
Something I found on another site:

Here's an explanation of the finale that was supposedly written by one of the writers.

I'd like to see a link or some evidence that this was actually written by someone involved with the show. Imo there are some pretty obvious clues that indicate the person who wrote the article has nothing to do with the series - including constant referral to those involved with the show as "the writers" instead of "us".

The most damning is this:

"But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. "


The whole conceit is ridiculous. But even if there was a tiny chance (and there isn't) they actually wrote this scene 6 years ago, it's ******ed to think they couldn't have made a few small edits to add characters who became relevant post season 1.
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05-24-2010 , 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires
I'd like to see a link or some evidence that this was actually written by someone involved with the show. Imo there are some pretty obvious clues that indicate the person who wrote the article has nothing to do with the series - including constant referral to "the writers" instead of "us".

The most damning is this:

"But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. "


The whole conceit is rediculous. But even if there was a tiny chance (but there isn't) they actually wrote this scene 6 years ago, it's ******ed to think they couldn't have made a few small edits to add characters who became relevant post season 1.
Also, Juliet was in there, right?
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05-24-2010 , 10:06 PM
In the end I think the themes of Lost were great, but the plot was pretty terrible.

It was a fun ride and a very thought provoking experience, but I completely agree that a re-watch would be painful as the inconsistencies and what ultimately turn out to be pointless story arcs would overshadow what was good about the show. I think they made the right decision with the finale since the plot was never going to be able to fully add up at that point, but that doesn't take away the feeling that we got duped along the way....often.
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05-24-2010 , 10:09 PM
Desmond, Penny, Juliet. Some sort of wanna-bee is my bet on the "writer"
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05-24-2010 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
"But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. "
Having just seen this i'm not going to bother reading what it is from. Obvious troll.
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05-24-2010 , 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stabn
Having just seen this i'm not going to bother reading what it is from. Obvious troll.
lol but it was actually interesting and semi-believable up until that point.
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05-24-2010 , 10:17 PM
^^ I like "writer's" summary a lot

brings perfect sense to the the comments MIB and Jacob were making watching the ship arrive from the beach
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05-24-2010 , 10:18 PM
iron sheik wins this thread and has articulated my feelings exactly.

i call bs on the whole "this is how abrams pictured the series would end" except the eye thing (omg so kewl). mainly because jack was supposed to die in episode 1. also because i don't think he would have thought of flash sideways shenanigans from the very beginning.
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclastic
Something I found on another site:

Here's an explanation of the finale that was supposedly written by one of the writers.
i'd like to know where this is from, it's awesome
***Official*** LOST: The End. Quote
05-24-2010 , 10:45 PM
I just realized the season finale is like a bad case of blue balls. I was super excited for 5 seasons, but never got off in the end.

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05-24-2010 , 10:47 PM
Assani and Iron Sheik have nailed it... this could have been so much better. Didn't truly hate it, but I was super disappointed.
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05-24-2010 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher
I don't really understand how "its not possible." During the early seasons, I spent a ton of time on message boards where I went into great detail about what I thought the entire end game would be. If I could do that, then why couldn't the writers? Its not like it takes months to come up with a basic outline of a plot....you can literally sit down for a few hours and work something out.
lol this has to be the dumbest thing I've read on 2+2.
Hai guys I spent a ton of time on a message boards brainstorming theories and end games that I thought were cool. My life is totally similar to a showrunner's for a multi-million dollar major network TV production...there is no reason they should have come up with an end game that I totally don't like nor would I have ever chosen. It only takes a few hours to come up with a plot for LOST...its soooo easy.
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05-24-2010 , 11:07 PM
Besides screwing up the details about what characters were in the church, that think from the "writer" was actually really good.
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05-24-2010 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagos
Why the Others were hostile has already been explained by Phil and by myself. Ben was a bad leader, corrupted by power, selfish, sought to control the island but was upset by his perceived lack of communion with it, MiB was manipulating him, etc etc...

As for the children being kidnapped and Zach and Emma and WAAAAALLLLLTT, I consider this the nut low point of the show. The fact it went nowhere is fine by me, but even so, it can still be explained! They were people Jacob was interested in, perhaps on those "lists" that were given to Richard by Jacob. However, once under the supervision of Ben, things were handled very poorly.

Agree that Ben and Widmore deserved a more fulfilling arc.
you are crazy to say that the show did anything but go on a straight linear down path from the 3rd season or so.

I don't find your explanation satisfactory at all. Ben was the best character on the show for so long who was a genius, and controlled everyone and was in control of himself... now we are to believe he was just a crazy fool? Give me a break.

Also the Ben and Widmore thing was like the basic idea of the show for like the last three seasons. That's how kwame got sent to the island and how ben lost his daugther etc. He somehow spends his entire life trying to find this island, and sacrifices his own son to his quest... but then he gets there and says "oops, changed my mind!!"

i mean, come on... nothing in this show was character driven
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05-24-2010 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDalla
Besides screwing up the details about what characters were in the church, that think from the "writer" was actually really good.
Unless of course, libby, penny, and a few others were already planned in season 1... Could be... but yeah, considering they said Jack was supposed to die the first episode... Unless they were just lying about that to generate more interest in Jack :P
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05-24-2010 , 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic
LOL that The Usual Suspects makes any sense at all. It doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. In fact, the whole movie is just supposed to be a tall tale told by Kevin Spacey in the police station. Horrible movie.
domici are you seirously going to make this big a fool of yourself? after you call people idiots who can't appreciate lost you say usual suspects was bad? the fact that you would even compare a movie as good as usual suspects to lost, a show which doesn't even make sense, is just a joke.
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05-24-2010 , 11:30 PM
Anyone who appreciates Lost as a good show is just a fool. The show gives so little respect to the viewer it is nauseating. Here is one example; Jacob's mother appears to be a terrible person. She is cold and killed an innocent mother. The Man in Black is actually just the kid who had the courage to not accept the homicidal person who pretended to be his mother. Really everything indicates that she is bad, and thus the magical water is actually bad - the only thing that doesn't is the fact that the water is golden!!!

The entire series we are shown Jacob as a brillant and all knowing God. Yet in the episode where we see his origin he is like a child man whose defining characteristic is cowardice. His brother the Man In Black always left him alone but Jacob and his mother couldn't leave him alone. They ruin his dream of leaving the island and then they turn him into a smoke monster. Everyone on the island is just a cult follower.
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