It wasn't in the book, and "for some reason" is probably to explain how the iron throne was built and how dragon skulls used to decorate the throne room.

While I agree to a point but it was written in 91-94ish and it was probably more on trend then. There's a lot of character types that reminds me of Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, Thorn series (which is well worth a read) which came out around the time he started writing this and is meant to be a influence. Suspect if he started now some of the stereotypes you mention wouldn't be in it as some fantasy has moved on from there.

Yeah, the scene feels kinda weird. Caught up on the reading and it's slightly different in the book, not sure if a summary is appropriate in this thread, will pm.

The dagger that's sitting on top of Ned's ponderous tome when Cersei walks into his office to talk, is the assassination dagger. You don't even see her look at it, but she does walk away from the table early in the conversation. Another example of Ned not being savvy, I think.

I read the first two books years ago so I have forgot a lot and remember bits as it comes on the screen, eg the guy that was going to die in the joust, so I don't want to say too much on why I think he said it in case its my memory leading me.

However a lot of the scenes and conversations especially the last couple of episodes there is so much going on and you have to think about people's motivations in what they are saying, what they might get out of it now, but also what they hope to achieve from it in the future.

The whole thing is around political manipulation and not taking things at just face value, the Cersai/Ed stark scene this episode for example is probably the best example in this episode.

The Starks don't seem to be good strategists thus far. The final scene with Tyrion is bit mad as well, considerng the weakness of their case (we believe you gave your super expensive, one of a kind knife to some hoodlum to drop in our bedroom). Would prob not stake either of them.

Medieval justice isn't mainly about evidence but about power. The thing with the wolves should have made that pretty clear. So it's not "can they prove 100% that the Lannisters did this and that?" but "can the Starks take them on?.

In the final scene Catelyn is not really trying to make a case. She is just calling out everyone in the bar on their loyalty so they side with her based on that. She isn't trying to prove she actually has probably cause to seize Tyrion.

I agree that it's not forensic science or whatever, but I still think they both have righteous attitudes which look to be detrimental to their cause, whether it's justice, power or both. The Starks are, so far, the only mildly sympathetic characters so it's probably a theme of the whole story.

(The wolves could be an example of symbolic justice, but it's also an illustration of Lannister sadism--the first example of judgment is the deserter in Winterfell, which is cruel but kind of unsurprising.)

Fair enough. I'd be kind of reticent to grab Tyrion in bar while exposing my suspicions, but it was clearly an improvised "solution".

Again, you guys are latching on to the wrong, less relevant portion of my argument and ignoring the rest. I am crystal clear on the fact that it's trying to frame Tyrion as an intellectual. My point is that having him say a line like that is a cheap and unnecessary way to do it. We can already observe that he's smart (and if we somehow cannot observe that without the line, then both Martin and the showrunners have done a terrible job).

The fact that the line comes off as something that would have been in a 1988 PSA on Nickelodeon doesn't help matters (and is also not vital to my argument, so give it a rest). Author's intention is irrelevant here.

Picture a hypothetical scene in Mad Men, where Don Draper is sitting on a train, studying the ad on the back of a magazine (which he has done). A Wall Street type sitting next to him chuckles and says "why are you so interested in that silly advertisement?" Don says "look - you're in the business of investing, I'm in advertising. You study the stocks pages to be able to better do your job, and I study the advertisements to be able to better do my job."

Sound like a good idea? Or would that just be spoon-feeding information that we already have to an unintelligent audience?

While the seven kingdoms are unified, clearly regional ties and alliances are often stronger than a feigned allegiance to the crown.

So Catelyn didn't really just run in to Tyrion in any old bar, she ran in to him in a bar in her old 'hood' if you will as Riverrun is in between Winterfell and King's Landing.

The point of the conversation was that Jon thought the only way a man could really help the world was with a sword.

The conversation reveals that Tyrion considers himself very lucky to be alive and that he has a debt to his family. It shows him as a very loyal member of his family who wants to do anything he can do to help the family. Seeing as how he can't fight, which is the usual way a man can help his family in this world, he decided he should try to be as smart as possible to help them in other ways. This is not something Jon had considered before.

It's pretty revealing for both of their characters.

It's not trying to frame Tyrion as an intellectual. It's trying to develop Jon's character and relationship with Tyrion.

The scene is about Jon more than Tyrion. To the extent it's about Tyrion, it's about how Tyrion is interacting with Jon.

Yeah, scheming for the throne seems to depend on a lot of regional history. That does make her decision seem much less haphazard since it's probably a rare opportunity to get at the Lannisters. Haven't been checking the map enough.

Reasonable arguments, at least my point is clear now. I still think there are better ways to convey all of that without using the cheesy whetstone/books analogy, but I agree to disagree.

Too many people mentioning the books ITT

that entire conversation was in episode 2.

Your analysis of the conversation goes beyond what is revealed/emphasized on the screen. It sort of stood out to me when I read it the first time; and just now I noticed you had Last Post in the book thread (I previously thought you weren't in that thread), which makes me think I need to be wary about reading your posts in the future. Just saying.

I am officially hooked to this show

My interpretation of that is he was testing her to see if she would tell the Prince and generally starting to build a bond of trust which he can obviously leverage in the future when she is Queen.

I noticed that and i actually took it in the exact opposite way, which was Ned left the dagger and the book on the top to test her reaction immediate or in the future.

However im not sure whether she noticed and ignored them or just didnt recognise them, something which will take more time to show either way.

It's emotional manipulation. Telling her that story a), gets her good and scared about other people and more susceptible; and b), gets her to start thinking of Littlefinger as someone trusting that she can share secrets with. He's laying the groundwork now, wary of the fact that she'll be queen someday.

The conversation seemed especially meaningful in light of the relationship he has with Catelyn; she's convinced he's a great friend, but it's clear to everyone else that he has only his own interests at heart.

went out and bought the books a week ago, im about halfway into book 3 now, pretty good stuff

just wanted to say that i really think Tyrione is doing an amazing job and I really hate carcetti as littlefinger

LOL WAT?!!?!! How much have you been reading a day? I got them at the same time and am almost finished with one now. Can't wait for next episode should be awesome.

eh. I'm sure no one cares or whatever and this has only been brought up like 10 times, but I'm pretty much done with this thread because of all the thinly veiled spoilers. Stuff like "that wasn't in the book" or posting character's backstories is just way out of line for me. I want to enjoy this television series as presented to me weekly. For the life of me, I don't understand why people who have read the books at all are posting in this thread period. You have your own thread.

don't see anything that hasn't been in the episodes themselves. This thread is pretty well moderated.