What if Tywin got Shae killed? Then tyrion kills him, bronn is safe for his normal plot, etc.

**** i completely forgot she's at tyrions trial

she obv went to tywin's chambers and negotiated with him.
if they don't kill/get rid of her i'll seriously stop watching

Littlefinger specifically mentions to Sansa that in his initial dealings with the QoT, he personally sang Joffrey's praises to the end of the earth while he had his men spread all the (true) bad stories about him to the Tyrell men. Probably out of fear of spies within the Tyrell camp getting word back to KL that he was ****-talking Joffrey, and also because it's just bad form to start negotiations for an alliance by saying "Look, the king's an out-of-control psychopath and you're probably going to want to put him down like the dog he is. But it'd still be really cool if you'd join forces with them."

So it appears that the plot to assassinate Joffrey started in KL, and thus, presumably, Sansa's response to her being questioned played a significant role in the Tyrells making the decision to take him out of the picture. We do know that Littlefinger was the one that procured the poison (and that he delivered it to the feast via Sansa so that she'd have some culpability and motive to leave KL with him), and that he arranged the jousting dwarves as entertainment, seeking to bring Tyrion and Joffrey into conflict with one another just prior to Joffrey's assassination, thus going a long way toward framing Tyrion and thus relieving Sansa of her husband. Sansa was basically 100% Littlefinger's motivation in going along with the plot (though he says to her that he had no motive, which is a lie, because he can't just say to her "My motive is that I want to bang you").

I haven't read any of the other thread but this sounds awesome.

lol I love vix but it's hilarious how he keeps claiming if the tyrells had any part in joff's death the show has jumped the shark.

yeah, don't see how dominic thinks commenting on things like that is bad for this thread. i'm dying here with his last post

Ah yes, thank you Shaffer. Now I remember the part about having others spread the news about Joffrey in the Tyrell camp.

ahahahaha this was too good to not repost:

stated with such authority:

Love when they get so emotionally invested in their theory of what happened, that if they're wrong the only possible explanation is the show has "jumped the shark".

Considering how AFFC and ADWD went he has a point

Some of you guys were projecting when you read the Shae related chapters it seems to me. There is no evidence she was anything but one of the few true innocents in the books and that the TV show is making it clearer indicates that is all she was.

She was almost certainly forced into testifying and Tywin almost certainly forced her to his bed. If that is all that happened she was treated better than his first wife.

I think that is her cup tho. It is a clear glass rather than the gold chalice that Joff drinks from when he chokes.

Ok I finally got to rewatch last night. I think vix is a largely logical dude, and I honestly get the "It can't be the Tyrell's" theory from the info they have in the show. But how in the **** can you be on team pie? After rewatch, he eats the pie, is fine, drinks the wine, which Margaery just got the chance to **** with, then chokes. How is anyone on team pie poison? wtf

The most tilting thing about the other thread are the calls for more modding in there, as if the only way spoilers can creep into it is by a blatant book reader pretending not to be one, and its just a matter of more oversight being needed to root that out. Its like it has never occurred to anyone in there that they could have been unknowingly spoiled by someone outside of 2+2 entirely. Like maybe Vodoo has irl friend who he kicks theories around with, only this friend doesn't let on that he's read the books/wiki/whatever.

Thankfully, there are posters like vix to balance it all out.

I wonder the o/u of show watchers from the other thread who spoiled themselves because they couldnt wait to know who poisoned joff.
****, if it was me and I knew the answer was a few clicks away I wouldnt be able to contain myself

Vix is imo spoiled and trolling.

It crossed my mind that he was maybe reading this thread and feeding us with some of those gems

I have no freaking clue but there are a lot of book readers over at Westeros that are still on Team Pie. It's completely baffling. Even after:

* We know the identity of the poison and know that it is a crystal that dissolves in wine
* We know that crystals exactly matching the description of the strangler were in Sansa's hairnet and that Oleanna removed one of them
* We know that Littlefinger knew that Oleanna would remove one of Sansa's hairnet gems, which he reveals to her before she says anything, thus making it obviously part of the plot

Still some people seem to think that it was in the pie that was delivered straight to the high table from the kitchens, and that some as-yet-unexplained plot involving a serving girl was involved where Tyrion was the intended target and Joffrey wound up getting got by mistake is the actual story.

Anyway...

Two exceptionally cheeky shots of Oleanna in the episode that I only noticed on rewatch:

1: in the ceremony itself, there are a pair of rack focuses that start on Joff/Marg from the septon's POV and that focus out on members of the audience. On the second one, when the septon is saying "Cursed be he who would seek to tear them asunder," the camera focuses right on Oleanna.



2: Just as Tyrion is grabbing the chalice of now-poisoned wine, the focus is not on his hand as he does so. Where is it instead?



ETA: Oleanna also blinks twice in that very short shot, and her lip is very artificially glued in place. She's got the nuts yo.

.


Can't have it both ways Dom. You all read the thread anyway, who are we kidding.



It seems this thread is in fact becoming the police thread, which is an added bonus to the other thread imo. You guys can still point and laugh, only now from a safe distance, and the other thread can both benefit from that and not have bookreaders constantly bookreading up the thread in their myriad bookreader ways.

Think I'm re-initiating no spoilers at all except for previews too. That frame-by-frame crap obv originates in bookreader land so it can be more easily interpreted as meaningful in some way relating to the books.

Well, Shae does respond to the gang rape of Lollys, and her subsequent near-catatonia, by saying "...but all they did was **** her!" She was never an "innocent", she was just a very skilled whore who did a very good job of feigning affection to Tyrion during their time together. She was a stripper-with-benefits who got him into the champagne room again and again and again. This is made pretty clear by the speed with which she abandons him, humiliates him at his trial, and starts ****ing his dad the instant he's no longer in a position to pay her.

She's a bit like Bronn. Both are commoners of no status but great skill at their chosen professions, who come under Tyrion's employ through a shared pragmatism. The big difference is that Tyrion doesn't fall in love with Bronn, so he doesn't take his abandonment quite so personally.

The show's insistence on Shae truly caring for Tyrion (even to the point of turning down a bag full of diamonds rather than leaving him) is a total 180. They're probably trying to make the eventual, inevitable betrayal (0% chance she actually left on the boat; her showing up at the trial will be a big Surprise moment) that much more soul-crushing, but imo it just makes her character make no sense.

I'm incredibly tolerant of the show changing stuff from the books, but this is definitely a change I don't like.

+++++++++1

is borderline unreadable at times.

Yeah, they are almost making it acceptable for her to turn on him by testifying the way she does. By having Tyrion giver her the get away speech he gave her in the show they are giving her a sympathetic POV that the character should not have.

This is my sentiment as well, especially since our picture of Shae is painted through Tyrion's whore-loving eyes.

Two options are either
1) She truly loved him and had to betray him for self-preservation
2) She was a whore playing a part and a bigger fish came along

Bronn was pretty clear the whole time that he was in it for the money

The bigger problem with it being the pie is that half the room took sotme bite too.

The point from Joff as he choked whilst Tyrion looks at the chalice is the director making it clear to the audience what happened.