I think it's much more likely Ramsay dies than Stannis.
I completely agree. If anything during the battle or even this 20 person mission, Sansa will light the candle to be saved and Brienne will end up killing Stannis during the rescue. Stannis kills Ramsay then immediately killed by Brienne. That's the only way I see him dying so soon. There needs to be some conflict still in Westeros until the WW attack the wall and Dany brings her army.
You don't know what you don't know. You've already seen spoilers, like Selmy dying, Jojen dying, Tyrion becoming hand.
so what could be a spoiler? who knows. maybe the Knights King is shown to have the horn which destroys the wall. Or Zombie Mountain kills the High Sparrow. Or Doran kills Myrcella setting off a Lannister/Martell war. or Cersie is revealed to be a Secret Stark. there a million future plot lines from the book the show could show. personally I think that's ok
I thought we were discussing how book readers could still spoil the show.
Agreed, even in just the books I never bought that him dying then warging into Ghost was going to happen. In the show it seems even less likely. Regarding theory about Stannis getting killed by that **** Ramsey, god that would suck, but it does make sense as far as Mel & Davos going back to castle black tho, ugh.
Pretty sure I remember someone on r/asoiaf saying that GRRM straight up said one of the chapter titles in TWOW is Ghost. But I could be remembering that wrong.
Fwiw if [Jon] is coming back to life the show needs to end on the revival. He is too big a star to secretly smuggle back to Iceland or wherever to film next season. Nine he dies, Stannis is turned back. Ten is the funeral, now his watch is ended and boom, revival roll credits.
Yeah, an interesting conundrum. Killing him near the end of Ep 10 might help set up a bigger cliffhanger, but killing people off in Ep 9 is the pattern so far.
What if, to hide Harrington's continued involvement, they already filmed the season 10 resurrection scene? I suppose the problem with that is that if Jon is resurrected right away he'd have a whole bunch of season 10 scenes, and they almost certainly didn't have the production time to film them all already.
However, we don't know how or if Jon will be resurrected. Perhaps Jon will stay dead for most of the next book and most/all of the next TV season, only to come back later. If Jon is revived in Ep 10, it will amount to the show spoiling the books in a big way, and I'm not sure that B&W want to do that.
The published episode summary for EP 9 is:
Spoiler:
Jon returns to the Wall. Arya runs into someone from her past. Mace visits the Iron Bank. Stannis faces a difficult decision. Daenerys oversees a celebration of athleticism.
so we can expect to see
Spoiler:
Arya killing Meryn Trant and the Lloyds agent,
Stannis and Melisandre in conflict over sacrificing Shireen, perhaps leading Melisandre to doubt Stannnis really is AA and/or return to the wall,
Jorah fighting in the pits, possibly with an uprising in Mereen,
and Dany riding off on Drogon as the closing scene.
Where does that leave Tyrion? I don't think that leaves time for Jon to be assassinated. There's a chance they only use Ep 9 to establish Trant in Braavos and Arya as a killer of the insurance salesman, and leave killing Trant to Ep 10.
Doesn't GRRM have a contract to write one episode per season? He's not credited on Eps 1-9, so he might be doing 10. That might be a way to handle book spoliers related to Jon's resurrection. AFAIK, there's no episode 10 description, title or writing credit published yet. But wan't it the one rumoured to be the one to"blow up the internet"? Given the Ep 9 description, what we know from the books, and published news reports, I expect Ep 10 will include:
Spoiler:
Cersei's walk of shame
Perhaps Arya killing Trant,
Ramsey attempting to do something WRT Stannis, perhaps Stannis seeming to end up dead
Sansa escaping with Brienne and Theon's help to look for her bothers
Tyrion adrift in Mereen
Arya going blind
Jon getting killed as the final scene, with the camera tracking up and over the wall to where Night's King is waiting.
I don't think they kill Jon and resurrect him in the same Episode
If the Episode is titled "Winter has Come", and we have Cersei ruined, uncertain rule in KL, Stannis possibly dead, Sansa on the run, Dany MIA, Tyrion alone and far from home, Melisandre doubly foiled, Arya blind, Jon dead, Mereen in flames and Night's King on the march, would that be bleak enough for you?
At this point I doubt we're going to see an attempt on Myrcella's life and Bronn dying this year. We might see that drawn out and developed over next season, but an attempt on Myrcella's life after the Sand Snakes have already been locked up for kidnapping seems unlikely. Perhaps they haven't yet decided what to do with Jamie and Bronn. Do the Lannister bros reunite next year?
Mel knows that Thoros revived Beric (multiple times) from previous seasons, but i don't remember how much they really discussed how he did it.
Yeh, but she didn't know before then that such a thing could be done. She was surprised when Thoros explained what happened. Now that she knows, she can try it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyBlack
Ramsay is definitely going to get got
Yes, but the way Sansa now has more agency makes me hope that she has something to do about it, even if it's just Brienne.
Doesn't GRRM have a contract to write one episode per season? He's not credited on Eps 1-9, so he might be doing 10. That might be a way to handle book spoliers related to Jon's resurrection.
He didn't write one this season so he could focus on TWOW.
Quote:
AFAIK, there's no episode 10 description, title or writing credit published yet.
Spoiler:
Mother's Mercy: Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
So seems clear that Jon gonna get stabbed. And I don't see how insta-reviving/wharging him would "break the internet" so I'm convinced his death is the last scene. I guess Dany flys away in ep 9 and the strangers are the Dothraki? But that seems like a weird way of putting it, maybe they're switching that up a bit.
Dany of the show doesn't really need the dothraki. That prophesy doesn't exist requiring fulfilment, so just to compact her story they can skip the entire flight to the plains and meeting the khal etc. They are hacking out a lot of the essos plot already, so seems logical that goes too.
That said I expect she mounts Drogon but stays nearby. Final shot of meereen is her landing Drogon on the great pyramid? Good meaningful visuals.
Jon revived has to end the season imo. Now his watch is done ldo.
I'm not sure it's super clear that Dany has enough power to invade Westeros with just her current forces though. Unsullied are an army but I don't think (?) she has horses.
He didn't write one this season so he could focus on TWOW.
Spoiler:
Mother's Mercy: Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
So seems clear that Jon gonna get stabbed. And I don't see how insta-reviving/wharging him would "break the internet" so I'm convinced his death is the last scene. I guess Dany flys away in ep 9 and the strangers are the Dothraki? But that seems like a weird way of putting it, maybe they're switching that up a bit.
Spoiler:
and Stoneheart who is actually named Mother's Mercy in the AFFC Appendix! sigh
Hmmm...so maybe she really is the one that brings Jon back...that would indeed be internet breaking so I'll buy the resurrection this season if that's how they do it.
I could see something like Cat and the Brotherhood without Banners just chilling (lol) outside Winterfell in winter time waiting for a moment to strike and they have captured Brienne/Pod. Seems pretty far fetched but possible for the show.
How they give Cat a motivation to be hanging outside Castle Black is a bit beyond me though. How she'd get a hold of Jon's corpse is even more confusing.
Did one of the promos for season 5 not have a dragon flying over the red keep? I just thought of that now. It could of been season 4 either.
edit - ye it was season 4. Dany flying off on Drogon in episode 9 and having Cersei look up at the sky and seeing a dragon to end episode 10 would of been cool though.
I'm not sure it's super clear that Dany has enough power to invade Westeros with just her current forces though. Unsullied are an army but I don't think (?) she has horses.
In the context of the show and it's background, borrowing a bit from the books to further support this, I disagree.
One dragon decimated the largest most powerful castle ever made and if she gets Drogon under control riding him that is probably all she needs. The unsullied as a professional army could likely tear up most westeros armies anyway if commanded correctly. Historically 3000 unsullied beat a 50000 dothraki force and she has 8000.
Tywin had 30000 at the peak of the war of five kings, probably the peak of a westeros army now, but it's likely less than 10% were trained professional fighters (knights) with the rest peasants armed with spears. Its plausible that if the two armies met in open battle dany could be victorious with just one dragon under control terrorising the opposing army, but more likely she would use tactics more like Robb, especially guided by Tyrion who knew how close Robb came to winning the war. She could quickly move through the lands taking down smaller houses and building her force that way, when the dragons turn up no one will fight.
Its also worth noting that Aegon I probably had a smaller force than Dany in his conquest. A dragon or two is pretty unfair in medieval warfare.
Its also likely that Tyrion will get her heavy cavalry from Dorne. The show has done plenty setting the groundwork for this union.