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Originally Posted by Dominic
This actually makes sense. Nice job.
Well,you're resonsible for the thought. At the end of my first viewing of the episode, I went away with the idea that Rothstein was behind the hit, after having calmed down and come to terms with Nucky. But your post questioning how it makes sense for Rothstein to do it made me rewatch and think some more. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.
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Originally Posted by Rod Handler
It would not be in Nucky's best interests to be requesting that Lucky and Lansky whack Gyp if their own boss turned Nucky down for the same request. That would be Nucky undermining Rothstein with negative ramifications for Nucky. On that basis I still tend to think that Rothstein agreed to the whack, begrudgingly or not.
Sure it's possible that Rothstein came around to agreeing. If that's the case, I think the show was being dishonest with its viewers, by leaving us with the impression that Rothstein and Thompson parted in disagreement.
I'm going to disagree with your "best interests" argument, though. Rosetti has shut down Nucky's entire income stream. He can afford to lose Rothstein as a customer - there were plenty of other potential customers disappointed when Nucky announced that henceforth he'd only be dealing with Rothstein. But he cannot afford to have Rosetti cutting the road. He'd prefer to have Rothstein's cooperation in the matter, but Rothstein turned him down and insulted him in the process. Crossing Rothstein is not a deterrent to the choice, it is an added incentive.
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Originally Posted by nath
Rothstein was there when Rosetti let his hotel room number slip. I really doubt a hit was made at said hotel room without his say-so (and really, really doubt that Lansky and Luciano would go behind Rothstein's back at this point in time).
I think this is a stronger argument against my theory, but hardly conclusive. Lansky and Luciano are too small-time to be out from under the thumbs of the bigger operators, Masseria and Rothstein, but there can be no doubt that they have ambitions in that direction. They cooperate with Rothstein more than Masseria, but a Rothstein-Masseria war would serve their purposes.
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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
I'm confused on that theory as well.
Originally I thought the scene where Luciano and Owen are just sizing each other up was due to the awkwardness of them being in the same room together with nothing to do. If that theory is correct, it's possible that they're actually trying to gauge the other person after talking behind Rothstein's back.
The main thing which I think points towards that theory being false is the ending: Why does Owen say "There's news from Mr. Rothstein"?
Seems odd that Rothstein would be the one to send word to Nucky first.
Yeah I hadn't seen that. My PVR cut off the last 30 seconds of the show, when Billie and Eddie were on stage, and I just got to see that scene between Owen and Nucky now on demand. I've gotta agree that makes my theory unlikely to be correct, though not impossible. Rothstein has more potential sources of information on the event than Nucky does, and having been not quite successful, (he's currently at the "Murder Ltd." stage, rather than "Murder Inc.") Siegel might not be sticking his head up to report. Also Siegel is not in a position to know the correct number of fatalities - he was in too much of a hurry to check for vital signs. That points to the possibility of the information coming to Rothstein from Rosetti or a third party. But the fact that Rothstein reports this information to Thompson does make it seem like they are cooperating in the matter. If that's the case, Dominic's questions still stand.
Perhaps that final scene is the show's way of telling us that Rothstein and Thompson really are still working together. Or perhaps it is Rothstein's way of telling Nucky he knows what's going on.
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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
Agree that the gun scene is pretty bad. Why send one guy, ...
Rothstein is more a gambler/businessman than a gangster. If he's behind it, he doesn't have a whole army of gunmen to carry out an overt attack. A surprise attack was the best chance, and that means one man on a pretext. If Nucky is behind it and wants to put the blame on somebody else, he doesn't have a whole bunch of outside people to go to.
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Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
... also why send [Siegel] when he was just chastised an episode before for how he handled himself in a gunfight,
Again the question of limited resources. Who else could they use? Siegel has certainly shown himself to be willing.
But also, plausible deniability. If Rothstein ordered it, he may consider Siegel/Lansky/Luciano expendable, and would seek to make the hit look like part of Lansky/Luciano's struggle with Masseria. Siegel is known to belong to Lansky/Luciano.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
and finally after he killed everyone but the mark, why not just go back inside?
Unlike some shows, BWE actually recognizes ammunition limits. The element of surprise had been lost. Rosetti was armed and dangerous, and firing on Siegel as he fled. Rosetti has access to at least three more guns, so doesn't need time to reload. Rosetti had lots of other men in the town who would undoubtedly be alerted by the gunfire.
O/U on the number of episodes before a Harrow/Rosetti confrontation?