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Old 10-15-2012, 09:27 PM   #576
Nootka
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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I am generally not one to complain about stealing shots, but JFC at that Taxi Driver stolen shot. I hope there isn't a "You talking to me" scene next week.
that was so bad. we also got another dose of gyp starring as joe pesci, just in case we missed it the first couple of times.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:35 AM   #577
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Explain this for me:

Rothstein spells out why it's bad for him to kill Rossetti. He has bigger relationships with bigger mobsters in NY that are tied to Gyp. He can't go to war over this.

And then later, he tries to have Gyp killed. ...Why? What's the plan? Why do it with Bugsy - who Gyp has met - and can now tie back to Rothstein - and not tell Nucky, "this is your problem, not mine. Deal with it or I'm finding another supplier."

And about supplying Rothstein with booze, it seemed like Gyp had a good plan. Tabor Heights is closer to NY and ships can go there and unload booze just as easy as they can in AC.

What am I missing?
The way the hit was carried out, it would have been difficult to tie back to Rothstein if it had been successful (unless someone survived the attempt AND knew and could specifically identify Benny).

As far as being a liquor supplier, I wasn't sure that Gyp actually had any permanent source of importing liquor, just that he had a bunch he'd stolen from Nucky and could sell to Rothstein.

And whoever said Rothstein would never work with Gyp because Gyp makes everything personal is right, too. Gyp's attitude makes him a thorn in everyone's side and it's just easier to off him than deal with him.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:51 AM   #578
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Explain this for me:

Rothstein spells out why it's bad for him to kill Rossetti. He has bigger relationships with bigger mobsters in NY that are tied to Gyp. He can't go to war over this.

And then later, he tries to have Gyp killed. ...Why? What's the plan? Why do it with Bugsy - who Gyp has met - and can now tie back to Rothstein - and not tell Nucky, "this is your problem, not mine. Deal with it or I'm finding another supplier."

And about supplying Rothstein with booze, it seemed like Gyp had a good plan. Tabor Heights is closer to NY and ships can go there and unload booze just as easy as they can in AC.

What am I missing?
Two possible things. When Rosetti tells Rothstein that Tabor Heights has access to the same ocean that Thompson used to control, and that he'd have the same boats and the same booze at the same price, Rothstein replies "I only want the genuine article. I have no use for anything else." Rosetti offers Rothstein the chance to taste from a shipment coming in the next night. Perhaps Rothstein found the product lacking. Perhaps he knows that Nucky has a source of genuine Irish whiskey. Perhaps the way Rosetti treated the paperboy convinced Rothstein that Nucky was right about Rosetti being bad for business.

But I don't think that is it.

Rothstein isn't the one to order the attempt on Rosetti. Nucky is behind it. When Nucky and Slater are waiting for Billie to return from rehearsal, Owen says he's nervous because "I don't like that it's out of our hands", and Nucky replies "If it goes the wrong way, then someone else is to blame." "It" is the hit on Rosetti. Owen replies "As you wish" - meaning Nucky does intend the blame to fall somewhere else. The hit is carried out by Siegel, who works for Luciano and Lanski. After being rebuffed and rebuked by Rothstein, I think Nucky went directly to Luciano and Lanski. We know Nucky doesn't like to be turned down, and when it happens he only seems to take it quietly - cf. Eddie Cantor. Nucky had noted that Rosetti reports to Masseria, and Rothstein is in a delicate situation with Masseria. He probably knows that Lansky and Luciano are trying to get their own operation going and are chafing under the hegemony of Masseria. Luciano and Lansky see this as a chance to weaken Masseria, and Nucky uses this as an incentive while also deflecting any possible blame onto Rothstein. Luciano was at the meeting with Rosetti where the paper delivery is mentioned. Your assumption that Rothstein is behind the attack just shows that Nucky was correct about the blame.

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Also, glad to see Inga or Hilda or whatever take control and BONG the Fed in the head.
I think you mean Sigrid. It's a Norwegian name, so perhaps its harder to spell (or remember) than Inga or Hilda.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:13 AM   #579
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Agree with Meh till the end.

I won't mention the previews for next week, or at least what they contained, but I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on in those.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #580
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
I am generally not one to complain about stealing shots, but JFC at that Taxi Driver stolen shot. I hope there isn't a "You talking to me" scene next week.
Dont think you can "steal" a shot. I mean its not like they were hoping no one noticed.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:35 AM   #581
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post

Rothstein isn't the one to order the attempt on Rosetti. Nucky is behind it. When Nucky and Slater are waiting for Billie to return from rehearsal, Owen says he's nervous because "I don't like that it's out of our hands", and Nucky replies "If it goes the wrong way, then someone else is to blame." "It" is the hit on Rosetti. Owen replies "As you wish" - meaning Nucky does intend the blame to fall somewhere else. The hit is carried out by Siegel, who works for Luciano and Lanski. After being rebuffed and rebuked by Rothstein, I think Nucky went directly to Luciano and Lanski. We know Nucky doesn't like to be turned down, and when it happens he only seems to take it quietly - cf. Eddie Cantor. Nucky had noted that Rosetti reports to Masseria, and Rothstein is in a delicate situation with Masseria. He probably knows that Lansky and Luciano are trying to get their own operation going and are chafing under the hegemony of Masseria. Luciano and Lansky see this as a chance to weaken Masseria, and Nucky uses this as an incentive while also deflecting any possible blame onto Rothstein. Luciano was at the meeting with Rosetti where the paper delivery is mentioned. Your assumption that Rothstein is behind the attack just shows that Nucky was correct about the blame.
This actually makes sense. Nice job.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:34 AM   #582
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Yeah that was good. I hate you for ruining the next episode tho.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:34 AM   #583
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

I missed all of that.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:00 AM   #584
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Yea people tend to always jump the gun on this show complaining such and such doesn't make sense. It almost always is explained in the next few episodes.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:12 AM   #585
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

i like where all of this is heading so far, except jimmy's mom. stupid story line, her whole whorehouse is boring for some reason. Nuggy's drama with Billy is bad (poor Nuggy, to bad he is such a pos that no one cares what happens to his personal life), but i like how they did not draw it out and confronted Margaret with it so soon. Now it sort of puts Margaret in a very different position than not knowing about it. I do like that they are giving more time to Eddie Cantor. The show is filled with so many solid actors and lesser characters that really recreate the atmosphere and he is one of them.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:41 AM   #586
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
Rothstein isn't the one to order the attempt on Rosetti. Nucky is behind it. When Nucky and Slater are waiting for Billie to return from rehearsal, Owen says he's nervous because "I don't like that it's out of our hands", and Nucky replies "If it goes the wrong way, then someone else is to blame." "It" is the hit on Rosetti. Owen replies "As you wish" - meaning Nucky does intend the blame to fall somewhere else. The hit is carried out by Siegel, who works for Luciano and Lanski. After being rebuffed and rebuked by Rothstein, I think Nucky went directly to Luciano and Lanski. We know Nucky doesn't like to be turned down, and when it happens he only seems to take it quietly - cf. Eddie Cantor. Nucky had noted that Rosetti reports to Masseria, and Rothstein is in a delicate situation with Masseria. He probably knows that Lansky and Luciano are trying to get their own operation going and are chafing under the hegemony of Masseria. Luciano and Lansky see this as a chance to weaken Masseria, and Nucky uses this as an incentive while also deflecting any possible blame onto Rothstein. Luciano was at the meeting with Rosetti where the paper delivery is mentioned. Your assumption that Rothstein is behind the attack just shows that Nucky was correct about the blame.
It would not be in Nucky's best interests to be requesting that Lucky and Lansky whack Gyp if their own boss turned Nucky down for the same request. That would be Nucky undermining Rothstein with negative ramifications for Nucky. On that basis I still tend to think that Rothstein agreed to the whack, begrudgingly or not.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:43 AM   #587
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Sepinwall doesn't see why a man would be obsessed with Billy. Sepinwall is a crazy person.
Maybe Alan bats for the other team. In which case his view would not be so crazy.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:47 AM   #588
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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I do like that they are giving more time to Eddie Cantor. The show is filled with so many solid actors and lesser characters that really recreate the atmosphere and he is one of them.
I loved the exchange with Eddie and Billy towards the end, when she didn't know who Lucy was to which he replied: "and the next one won't know anything about you either".
It's the first time we've seen Eddie be dark and vindictive.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:10 PM   #589
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Rothstein was there when Rosetti let his hotel room number slip. I really doubt a hit was made at said hotel room without his say-so (and really, really doubt that Lansky and Luciano would go behind Rothstein's back at this point in time).
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #590
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

I'm confused on that theory as well.

Originally I thought the scene where Luciano and Owen are just sizing each other up was due to the awkwardness of them being in the same room together with nothing to do. If that theory is correct, it's possible that they're actually trying to gauge the other person after talking behind Rothstein's back.

The main thing which I think points towards that theory being false is the ending: Why does Owen say "There's news from Mr. Rothstein"?

Seems odd that Rothstein would be the one to send word to Nucky first.




Agree that the gun scene is pretty bad. Why send one guy, also why send him when he was just chastised an episode before for how he handled himself in a gunfight, and finally after he killed everyone but the mark, why not just go back inside?
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #591
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Forgot to ask:

When Nucky and Rothstein are arguing, Nucky says something along the lines of "you're dead below the waist" in regards to their dating practices.

Is this in reference to the scene in the first season where Rothstein sees the doctor about his std and says he has trouble getting it up? It seems odd that Nucky would know about this, or has Rothstein slept with someone that Nucky knows? Just found it odd that this was brought up the in their conversation.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:43 PM   #592
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That was Luciano.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:48 PM   #593
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Yeah just remembered that as well.

So now I'm really confused what that remark meant.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:01 PM   #594
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Maybe insinuating he was gay? We've never seen him with a woman after all.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:20 PM   #595
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

NIT ALERT:

It's "Billie." Not "Billy."
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #596
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

Nuggy's girlfriend?

Yeah we never have seen him with a woman, that is strange.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:04 PM   #597
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post

Rothstein isn't the one to order the attempt on Rosetti. Nucky is behind it. When Nucky and Slater are waiting for Billie to return from rehearsal, Owen says he's nervous because "I don't like that it's out of our hands", and Nucky replies "If it goes the wrong way, then someone else is to blame." "It" is the hit on Rosetti. Owen replies "As you wish" - meaning Nucky does intend the blame to fall somewhere else. The hit is carried out by Siegel, who works for Luciano and Lanski. After being rebuffed and rebuked by Rothstein, I think Nucky went directly to Luciano and Lanski. We know Nucky doesn't like to be turned down, and when it happens he only seems to take it quietly - cf. Eddie Cantor. Nucky had noted that Rosetti reports to Masseria, and Rothstein is in a delicate situation with Masseria. He probably knows that Lansky and Luciano are trying to get their own operation going and are chafing under the hegemony of Masseria. Luciano and Lansky see this as a chance to weaken Masseria, and Nucky uses this as an incentive while also deflecting any possible blame onto Rothstein. Luciano was at the meeting with Rosetti where the paper delivery is mentioned. Your assumption that Rothstein is behind the attack just shows that Nucky was correct about the blame.
makes sense indeed.
However at the end of the episode when Owen whispered to Nucky about 4 fatalities he said "there's news from mr. Rothstein"
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:23 PM   #598
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Maybe Alan bats for the other team. In which case his view would not be so crazy.
Married with two kids FWIW.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:31 PM   #599
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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This actually makes sense. Nice job.
Well,you're resonsible for the thought. At the end of my first viewing of the episode, I went away with the idea that Rothstein was behind the hit, after having calmed down and come to terms with Nucky. But your post questioning how it makes sense for Rothstein to do it made me rewatch and think some more. Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

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It would not be in Nucky's best interests to be requesting that Lucky and Lansky whack Gyp if their own boss turned Nucky down for the same request. That would be Nucky undermining Rothstein with negative ramifications for Nucky. On that basis I still tend to think that Rothstein agreed to the whack, begrudgingly or not.
Sure it's possible that Rothstein came around to agreeing. If that's the case, I think the show was being dishonest with its viewers, by leaving us with the impression that Rothstein and Thompson parted in disagreement.

I'm going to disagree with your "best interests" argument, though. Rosetti has shut down Nucky's entire income stream. He can afford to lose Rothstein as a customer - there were plenty of other potential customers disappointed when Nucky announced that henceforth he'd only be dealing with Rothstein. But he cannot afford to have Rosetti cutting the road. He'd prefer to have Rothstein's cooperation in the matter, but Rothstein turned him down and insulted him in the process. Crossing Rothstein is not a deterrent to the choice, it is an added incentive.

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Rothstein was there when Rosetti let his hotel room number slip. I really doubt a hit was made at said hotel room without his say-so (and really, really doubt that Lansky and Luciano would go behind Rothstein's back at this point in time).
I think this is a stronger argument against my theory, but hardly conclusive. Lansky and Luciano are too small-time to be out from under the thumbs of the bigger operators, Masseria and Rothstein, but there can be no doubt that they have ambitions in that direction. They cooperate with Rothstein more than Masseria, but a Rothstein-Masseria war would serve their purposes.

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I'm confused on that theory as well.

Originally I thought the scene where Luciano and Owen are just sizing each other up was due to the awkwardness of them being in the same room together with nothing to do. If that theory is correct, it's possible that they're actually trying to gauge the other person after talking behind Rothstein's back.

The main thing which I think points towards that theory being false is the ending: Why does Owen say "There's news from Mr. Rothstein"?

Seems odd that Rothstein would be the one to send word to Nucky first.
Yeah I hadn't seen that. My PVR cut off the last 30 seconds of the show, when Billie and Eddie were on stage, and I just got to see that scene between Owen and Nucky now on demand. I've gotta agree that makes my theory unlikely to be correct, though not impossible. Rothstein has more potential sources of information on the event than Nucky does, and having been not quite successful, (he's currently at the "Murder Ltd." stage, rather than "Murder Inc.") Siegel might not be sticking his head up to report. Also Siegel is not in a position to know the correct number of fatalities - he was in too much of a hurry to check for vital signs. That points to the possibility of the information coming to Rothstein from Rosetti or a third party. But the fact that Rothstein reports this information to Thompson does make it seem like they are cooperating in the matter. If that's the case, Dominic's questions still stand.

Perhaps that final scene is the show's way of telling us that Rothstein and Thompson really are still working together. Or perhaps it is Rothstein's way of telling Nucky he knows what's going on.

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Agree that the gun scene is pretty bad. Why send one guy, ...
Rothstein is more a gambler/businessman than a gangster. If he's behind it, he doesn't have a whole army of gunmen to carry out an overt attack. A surprise attack was the best chance, and that means one man on a pretext. If Nucky is behind it and wants to put the blame on somebody else, he doesn't have a whole bunch of outside people to go to.

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... also why send [Siegel] when he was just chastised an episode before for how he handled himself in a gunfight,
Again the question of limited resources. Who else could they use? Siegel has certainly shown himself to be willing.

But also, plausible deniability. If Rothstein ordered it, he may consider Siegel/Lansky/Luciano expendable, and would seek to make the hit look like part of Lansky/Luciano's struggle with Masseria. Siegel is known to belong to Lansky/Luciano.

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and finally after he killed everyone but the mark, why not just go back inside?
Unlike some shows, BWE actually recognizes ammunition limits. The element of surprise had been lost. Rosetti was armed and dangerous, and firing on Siegel as he fled. Rosetti has access to at least three more guns, so doesn't need time to reload. Rosetti had lots of other men in the town who would undoubtedly be alerted by the gunfire.

O/U on the number of episodes before a Harrow/Rosetti confrontation?
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #600
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Re: Boardwalk Empire: Season 3

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Sure it's possible that Rothstein came around to agreeing. If that's the case, I think the show was being dishonest with its viewers, by leaving us with the impression that Rothstein and Thompson parted in disagreement.
Or it's possible Rothstein found an easy opening through the delivery boy and thought it was worth the risk. If the plan had succeeded, it likely would not have been tied to him, and he would have been fine in NY.
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