are you sure thats the answer he wanted? i think saying either yes or no gives him a muchj better shot then what he did. best approach mightve been. i was bringing hayden to the finals. you played way too good of a social game. i know i couldnt beat you. but vs hayden i put myself in a better spot then him bla bla

I really think Enzo was looking for a reason NOT to vote for Hayden

I understand how difficult live TV can be, but the director cutting to the overhead shot of the voting pod with Enzo having Lane's key just laying out in plain view is pretty inexcusable.

LOL at Rachel and Brendan's vote. I missed some of the show last night did they ever address Britney's house? Does anyone know if she was aware of what happened before she got on the show?

That's a good theory. I also think they had enough Ragan hate, that they would do the opposite of whatever he thought was best.

This is ridiculous, he's her best friend.

I think people speculated on 1 because of how petulant he acted when he was on the block. All three of the finalists spent a little time on the block. Hayden and Lane didn't like it either, but they were pretty cool cats about it.

I'm coming around on 2 a little if for no other reason that there seems to be a sizable block of viewers who bought Enzo's claim of mastermind when I was under the impression that it was a group of guys who had common goals and it was in their best interests to stick together...which is why I thought they stuck together. Others (besides Enzo) seem to think it was because he was such a mind melder. So maybe he was in complete control of Hayden and Lane the entire game. If so, I guess they don't get credit for making Britney destroy her game (and everyone else's) for them. If that is the case, then Enzo's only mistake was making an alliance with Hayden and Lane instead of...Kathy. I was trying to think of someone he could beat at the end in order to get to take himself to the finals. OR, he erred in getting rid of Matt. Because Matt could have won end game challenges and was too full of hubris to get rid of Enzo at the end.

I still say that if comps really mean next to nothing as we like to say. Hayden and Lane played a similar social game. And I believe Lane had the best side alliance, and was the one more responsible for getting her to get rid of Matt and crush the rest of the house in the process. IF we do not value the comps, an argument can certainly be made in Lane's favor.

I think if you put me on the spot, I have to vote for Hayden. Because I respect his ability to win and control his destiny at the end. And I thought he did a less worse job of selling his game on finale night. Also, because he was more of a challenge threat, and still managed to not get voted out.

Guys you are over looking this. I really think in Rachel's mind it is as simple as Hayden was in a showmance with Kirsten who Rachel cannot stand. she really is that petty. I really hope they bring her back for allstars

There is obv no point to even begin to explain brendans vote.

My take:

Lane wins if he convinces the jury he was infact the reason Matt got evicted. He convinced Britney, Britney put Matt up, Brigade evicted him. Also, like many others have said, just tell Enzo you would've taken him to the final 2.

He had a chance (because of Brenchel's wtf votes,) but messed it up.

Thoughts on the finale:

--Lane has to say "yes enzo i'd def take you." I'm not sure if it would have changed Enzo's vote, but it's the most +EV play by a landslide.

--The whole jury questioning was absolutely unbearable. I really dislike them keeping the final three until jury night. It's much better when 3rd place goes to the jury house and they do the jury questioning in advance and just vote live.

--Of the final five, Hayden was the one I least-wanted to see win just because I thought the others were more entertaining, but he deserved it.

--Rachel may be the most short-sighted, dumb contestant in recent memory, but she's great for TV.

--There's zero chance Britney marries Nick.

Alright guys, good times. See you in the Survivor thread.

Matt said he voted for the person he thought was most instrumental in taking him out. As others have said, Lane needed to sell that as HIS big move in the game. That might have gotten him Matt's vote. Also, I think Lane had a shot at Enzo's vote if he uses the platform to praise Enzo's game but also say he thought he could beat Hayden in the final 2. Instead he said he didn't think he could beat either. The only reason that this was even close was because Brenchel voted Lane for some ridiculous reason.

Hayden deserved to win.

Also, Lane should get credit for having the strongest and most loyal side alliance. The Brigade would not have been nearly as successful if Britney wasn't working with them.

i cannot, for the life of me, understand you people that say "rachel is great TV" or "i hope rachel is on All Stars".

i fast forward every single time she says a word. i cannot bear to listen to her speak.
if i was forced to listen to her speak for an hour but could pay 100 dollars to get out of it, i gladly would. knowing she exists make me just a little less happy of a person. i pray that i will never hear her speak again for the rest of my life.

yeah rachel isn't good TV.

lol this is so win

rachel confirmed biggest hypocrite ****** i've ever seen

Stone cold mega-lock for All Stars 2. I expect Rachel and Enzo to be there as well.

please no, if i ever see rachel on tv again i don't know what i'll do

she is maybe the single most annoying person i've ever seen on a reality show. HER STUPID ****ING LAUGH AFTER EVERYTHING SHE SAYS, OH MY GOD KILL ME NOW IF I EVER HEAR IT AGAIN, WHO CONSIDERS THIS GOOD TV?

she's also really, really stupid, but the problem is she's not stupid in a way that's funny or entertaining, she's just stupid in a way that's annoying and slightly aggravating. everything about her is offputting

What can I say I enjoy conflict. I find Rachel entertaining for her ability to tilt anyone who is near her. I get little interest from watching a house with people who get along. Guess I just enjoy a good trainwreck. Same reason I'd like to see them bring ronnie back. I don't get any pleasure watching normal people in the house like Hayden. Hayden played an awesome game but very boring in terms of drama.

Okay, I know we've discussed this already, but I'm going to take a shot at a list for BBAS2. I'm assuming 14 players (7 men and 7 women) and no third-timers...

Men (probables): Dick BB8, Memphis BB10, Jeff BB11, Russell BB11, Enzo BB12
Men (maybes): Cowboy BB5, Eric BB8, James BB9, Brian BB10, Matt BB12, Lane BB12
Women (probables): Chelsia BB9, Britney BB12, Rachel BB12
Women (maybes): Daniele BB8, Jessica BB8, Natalie BB9, Keesha BB10, Renny BB10, Lydia BB11

I'm including Cowboy, Jessica, and Brian because they were contenders for BB11. I did not include Dan and Jordan, both because they're winners and because the interest level might not be high enough. I'm just guessing, though, and both are probably locks to come back if they want to play again. For this, I'm going to assume they do not.

Counting all the probables as being in, that leaves 2 male spots and 4 female spots open. Considering there are already three BB12ers in, I think you can remove Lane and Matt. Brian is a tough sell on an All-Star season, and who gives a crap about Cowboy? The women are tougher. BB9 isn't well represented, so I think Natalie takes one of the spots. Daniele and Jessica probably fight over one spot, and I'll give it to Jessica. I think Renny gets the nod over Keesha due to age, and I think Lydia is wacky enough to steal the last spot.

Men: Dick BB8, Eric BB8, James BB9, Memphis BB10, Jeff BB11, Russell BB11, Enzo BB12

Women: Jessica BB8, Chelsia BB9, Natalie BB9, Renny BB10, Lydia BB11, Britney BB12, Rachel BB12

Getting to the end, I realize that there are zero gay people (or I guess 0.5 if you count Lydia) and only one minority. Maybe Kevin sneaks in over James, and maybe Jessica/Lydia get the boot for...Libra? I have no idea. I think it's a pretty solid cast either way, though.

Survivor invited all stars from the past all stars, I'll assume BB will follow suit and at least invite Will, Janelle, and maybe 1 other.

Dan will come back, he can become the undisputed GOAT if he goes far.

Brenchel was great TV because they had me eyerolling, facepalming, etc. almost every time they opened their mouths. Granted, the annoyance factor is huge but these are the types of characters these shows need in order to be watchable, seriously.

I would generally consider any character on TV that elicits an emotional reaction, positive or negative, to be "good for the show."

I don't know about all-stars though. I thought all-stars was supposed to be a collection of good players. She is easily one of the worst ever despite "entertaining" me. Then again, would not be surprised if she's part of all-stars for the reasons above.

They obviously have the option, so it just depends on what they want to do. I don't think you (not you, but CBS) can really make an argument for any third-timers other than Will and Janelle, though.

I feel like Dan is the type to turn it down. He's already won, so he knows he'd be an early target, and he just seems like the type that would say, "There's no need to ruin my legacy, and I enjoy my teaching job, so no thanks."

The only goal of an All-Star season is to get ratings. People will tune into see Rachel (even if they hate her) more than they'll tune in to see a good, boring player.

I would put Eric from BB8 in the highly probable category. Why do you have Memphis as a probable? I can't remember much about the guy except that he was loyal.