I mean, obv you're right, but if there ever was a game that I didn't want to sample again it was this one

Yeah in any case he looked like he was a high school qb dropped in a pro game. Hard not to conclude Kyle Shanahan either not a genius or jff worst qb ever. -51 point swang from last bungle game

yeah, the trenches caused 90% of that swang.

no QB alive (or dead I suppose) was gonna win this game, you could have had 4ypc against us, and man oh man they better pull out the checkbook for alex mack. that **** ain't a coincidence..

I don't want to sound like a Nebraska fan, but winning wasn't even like a requirement for me for thinking "ok, this guy has potential". It was an absolutely pathetic effort, 100 yards, lol, a lot of those on passes where Gordon just somehow finds an open space and there's no one close enough to pick it off. It wasn't even respectable.

Well the Browns obviously didn't show up for this game, but I thinks it's important to remember that this was an entire team (with maybe the exception of our secondary) failure. The Bengals had such a solid game plan that they didn't even try to exploit our backup secondary players, who were put in due to in game injuries.

Speaking to JFF, he's obviously not gonna "wreck this league" as a rookie. So while he wasn't a game changing rookie, a harsh evaluation of this game isn't fair either. We've all heard the stats about great QBs who sh*t the bed in there first couple starts in the NFL. He's a rookie with a lot of learning to do. However experience will allow him the opportunity to improve, which isn't saying much given our baseline. But he won't learning much from being chased around in the pocket on running plays. Lastly, I want to point out that Manziel had an extremely solid O-line at A&M. So this game took him out of his element on multiple levels.

Regarding the rest of the team we were consistently beat on almost every 1-on-1 match up. Considering all the hype and supposed "great practices and game plan" coming into the week I'm simply at a loss to explain. The only explanation that pops out at me is that the team had zero faith in JFF, and interpreted the QB change as the staff giving up on the season. This is cause for concern if true. However, I'll be optimistic and hope that we simply got out played/schemed/coached by a hungrier team. If nothing else every team has some sh*tty games. So perhaps it was an anomaly within a scary small sample size.

I also want to convey a post from Lego Man on DBN. He's a highly respected poster and I appreciate his level headed analysis:

He showed some promise. His arm looks live, his playmaking ability is still there, his legs are a weapon. His 3rd down throw that Hawkins dropped was a very good sign. The ball could’ve been a little bit better placed, but keeping his eyes downfield and scrambling to throw is huge. That’s my biggest takeaway, he was looking for receivers. I wish he had more than 18 attempts, it’s hard to evaluate such a small sample in the modern NFL.

Obviously the turnovers were bad, but those were rookie mistakes. His legs aren’t as dangerous as they were in college, but he can still move around effectively. He still likes to throw it into traffic, but I think that’s partly who he is and partly something he can learn from. His accuracy was off at times, but he’s demonstrated accuracy before so I don’t have a lot of long-term worry there.

Overall, the team sucked and the offense sucked and Manziel wasn’t fixing the problem, but I’m still optimistic about his future. He showed some good and some bad, and that’s fine with me.

by Legoman0721 on 12.14.14 7:42pm
up reply

Find me any good QB who **** the bed as bad as Johnny. That was one of the most pathetic efforts I've seen by any QB in the NFL.

And yes, the team sucked big time too.

just kinda hoping that he gets a little better so there's still that little bit of "so you're telling me there's a chance" but not enough that he starts to think his offseason should be anything but studying and living in berea...

I honestly have no hope he would do that no matter what. If he hasn't done it up to this point, what makes you think it would change? And if he has done it up to this point, he's hopeless.

Just hate having a wasted season next year. God damn Hoyer, just good enough to get us out of having a good draft pick. I'm telling you, 8-8/7-9 is the worst. I'd rather go winless.

you should join the greear "please lose every game for years" club then, **** 4-12.

also, embarrassment, especially on a stage as big as the one that he's on, is a very very powerful motivating factor.

he may not be good, but he sure as hell ain't trying to go out like THAT.

Probably one of the one things Greear is right on, being stuck in the 4-12/6-10 range is awful because you can't get a good enough pick to improve, but you still suck.

At least with 7-9/8-8 it feels like we are on the brink, just don't see how it happens.

Hard to tell what is going on in Johnny's head, although his cracking jokes on the sideline didn't make me think he was all that embarrassed. Who knows. Just very skeptical of someone who never really had to work hard and just had some fluke raw talent that was never developed have to do it for this first time this late in life, especially with his immaturity.

Gonna suck when Hoyer is gone and Johnny tears his ACL or whatever running around like an idiot and he catches a defender wrong.

the defenders catch him tho

That's fine as a backup, really bad luck to lose 2 QBs in one year. Just annoying when there's no good backup and a QB who plays kamikaze style.

Think Hoyer's injury was more of a fluke, though.

Are you seriously saying that an NFL team that finishes 4-12+ plus can't pickup players in the draft to improve? That line of thought is seriously misguided. Not sure what else to even say about that....
Are you familiar with Brady's draft spot, numerous first round busts, amazing UDFAs, and perhaps Gordon's draft status?
Regarding Manziel I'll point out that he won the Heis and then put up better numbers the following season. A lazy--coast on your laurels--type player would not improve like that after reaching the pinnacle of his current station. That said its obvious that JFF didn't work as hard as he should've been this season. But I'll warn you against taking that as a sign of a lazy, ride on you talent, type player. Yes he's young. Yes he's immature. Yes he makes mistakes. And he was obviously ill prepared for the NFL. But I've constantly read over the years that a backup QB who actually prepares for a game like he's the starter is a superhero/boarderline unheard of. I genuinely believe that Hoyer treated the game as such. But he's an exceptional man. Now if only he had average talent.

Can't is different than "highly unlikely". Yes, sometimes you can get a diamond in the rough. But that's rare and you end up with far more busts than talent. Especially at the QB position, it's quite hard to get a high quality one later.

Gordon's draft status was completely different, in that he's a huge risk with substance abuse (as evidenced by this season!).

LOL @ assuming better numbers = improve.

Johnny wasn't just some long term backup practicing, he basically knew he was the long term answer (or at least that was the plan). He pretty much knew he would be the starter at some point, and would need to have his **** together. I've seen zero progress from him, and that's a huge problem when you are a "raw talent that needs work". That being said, the whole "oooh, elusive QB" mania that struck the league with RG3, Kap, etc... is showing to be a huge bust, which is entirely obvious when you understand how the NFL works.

4-12 sucks worse than 1-15 and 1st round pick, though. 4-12 just barely puts you out of that elite type lock player range and more into the gamble range. Sure, you can roll the dice and win sometimes, but just do not count on Cleveland doing that.

I understand what you mean as far as drafting the next Andrew Luck. But to be polite, you've overstated your case. Sustainably winning NFL teams are build by drafting well. To say anything else, "you need a top 2 draft pick to pick up a game changing player", is just silly. Furthermore I'd rather take an A+ front office and a C- draft position than the opposite.

Anyhow, can someone please explain to me the necessary scenario where the Browns make the playoffs. I've been searching online but all I can find is vague >1% summations.

Drafting well is fine and dandy, but it's a crapshoot for QBs later in the draft. Good QBs go early, and they are very hard to come by. You might not have any good ones for a single year.

As for the playoffs, there was a bunch of teams losing and something like KC-San Diego Tie. Also Johnny College Football needs to somehow win 2 games, so might as well just hope the world gets amnesia and we trick the NFL into thinking the Browns are 16-0.

It's also a crapshoot for QBs early in the draft, which is my point.

Far less.

Top 15 picks that were QBs:
2014: Bortles (3)
2012: Luck (1), Griffin (2), Tennehill (8)
2011: Newton (1), Locker (8), Gabbert (10), Ponder (12)
2010: Bradford (1)
2009: Stafford (1), Sanchez (5)
2008: Ryan (3)
2007: Russell (1)
2006: Young (3), Leinart (10), Cutler (11)
2005: Smith (1)
2004: E. Manning (1), Rivers (4), Roethlisberger(11)
2003: Palmer (1), Leftwich (7)
2002: D. Carr (1), Harrington (3)
2001: Vick (1)
1999: Couch (1), McNabb (2), Akili Smith (3), Culpepper (11), McNown (12)
1998: P. Manning (1), Leaf (2)

There are a handful of busts on there, some guys who weren't fantastic (typically guys at the lower end of the list), but far from a crap shoot. Now compare that to the list of QBs selected in the 2nd round or later (sure, there are some who are actually good, but far more who aren't).

BERNIE BERNIE, OH OOOH, HOW YOU CAN THROW YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAAAH

Looks like a completely different team with Hoyer. Need to resign him so he can mentor our next QB.

Solomon's a MONSTER!

QFT

Gilbert! boo refs

Whole team seemed to suck for half the game, now looks good, what changed?

coaches are still greearing tho.

eyes on the prize