I'l give you guys my reasoning on why I'm iffy on WW's idea.

As a team that got to rub money on its titties this past year, I draft 11th this year. Tbh I wasn't even certain to draft a rookie depending on who got dropped. I'm still in win now mode. Add to that that a win now team is probably making waiver moves deep into the season, and I could stand to pick the worst of the crop of rookies, and then have the worst waiver priority too. We could slightly curb that by making it so that the bottom 6 always have their playoff for the freeroll into the next year, but still my point stands.

The truth is that the gap between a good team and a middle team in this league is pretty small. My edge might be AP's knee and that's about it. So I take the worst of it pretty badly here if I can only draft from rookies, and then potentially have a brutal waiver priority too. If I'm thinking about it wrong, I'm all ears.

Agreed. Three more points:

First, more players available in the draft means a longer draft. Let's be real, the draft is the one of the most fun parts of any fantasy league.

Second, there is also more strategy involved also, which is always fun. If I want to draft in the 4th or 5th round in this draft, I'm going to have to drop guys like Danny Woodhead, Aaron Dobson, or Toby Gerhart. This is a huge risk for me, and teams (like Rafiki) should be able to draft guys like this.

Third, if I drop guys post-draft to get back to 20, the best guys dropped will go to the teams in waiver order. This is a dumb way to determine who gets these good players and they should be picked through the draft.

The priority of the league is

A) parity/fairness
B) fun

The priority of the league is not

A) to make sure that the best teams stay on top
B) make it as difficult as possible to make trades

Owners are still going to exploit edges. There is no stopping that but I think it's a positive that your second place team will be picking at the end of the round and you probably will have a late WW priority.

If you had a team as bad as mine you would understand. LOLOLOLOLOL

You might have a bad team in a couple years wouldn't you want to be able to pick early and have a high WW priority so maybe you could turn your team around quickly? While also keeping it fairly easy to make draft day trades?

Matter of fact I think instead of randomizing the WW order maybe we should go in reverse order of the standings?

It's not going to be a longer draft. Either draft will be about the same length.

What's fun for you might not be fun for other people and vice versa. Sure you have to figure out who you're going to draft and drop but there will be no draft day trades. To me it seems like a hustle to get people to drop good players for a 3rd pick where they might get a worse player.

Why would it be a bad thing for the league for the best players dropped to go to the worst teams again?

I'm arguing with a high priced lawyer. I love it. I think I'm winning to. lolololol

And if you drop players pre-draft, the best guys dropped will go to teams in draft order. Assume you do drop Woodhead. Why is it "dumb" that a team picks him up via WW, but not dumb if a player just drafts him.

WW is exactly like a draft. DUCY.



Your arguments make no sense.

kuta

The draft could be less than 60 picks if we do it the way you have proposed. With no draft day trades at all.

Everybody should look at their team and count how many players they would drop before the draft.

Rafiki if you keep bragging about rubbing my money on your titties I'm going to ask for pics or it didn't happen.

I plan on dropping at least 3 guys, but probably 4.

Anyway I thought Kuta's points made the most sense about the drafting being way more fun if we drop guys to it. Also there's a ridiculous amount of luck on finishing high up in the standings. Our league had:

three teams 8/5
three teams 7/6
two teams 6/7 (who scored more points than the 7/6 teams anyway!)
two bottom teams

The gaps here, or parity as you put it WW, are tiny. So I'd be against the format you're proposing because of it. Those two last place teams are getting their game changing players, and can continue to trade as a win-later team would to became a good team later. But me picking 11th and only having access to Seferian-Jenkins or something like that is a bit lol. I liked Kuta's rules, and most liked them when he posted them too. What we could do is add one "buffer" spot to go over 20, and then you cut. But you still drop all your guys and we still draft from older dudes tossed back to the pile.

Yeah you're dropping 3 maybe 4 players so if everybody drops a similar amount of players the draft will be between 36-48 picks. So kuta's first point is not correct. It's not going to be a longer draft it's going to be a shorter draft.

A shorter draft with no draft day trades at all. If that's what everybody wants I'll vote against it but obviously go along with it. Doesn't sound as fun to me.

Sorry counted again, if I count the kicker I drop it's gonna be 5 guys. But I'm also probably one of the guys dropping the least players. I can't be representative of the league. Rawrs looks like he could drop 8 guys. Steerboys could easily drop 9. Lots others I've checked will drop 6.

Man NDFan could drop anywhere from 5 to 7 based on a quick look

Don't you have to have a kicker Rafiki? So you're dropping a kicker to draft a kicker?

I'm dropping the same or less. 3-4 players. Kuta is dropping 2-3 players. ND fan could drop as little as 2 players. Jets suk could drop as few as 2 players. Puzzles looks like 3 maybe 4 players. Steerboys 3-4 players. Toe's at 4 maybe 5.

Yeah pretty sure it will be less than 60 picks. To me the actual length of the draft doesn't really make it more fun or less but if kuta thinks a longer draft is more fun we should drop players after we do an elite super mega-long and fun 60 pick draft. You feel me kuta? huh? You know you like that.

I have Kuta dropping 4 just from looking at it. You're skewing your numbers just to prove your point.

Come on he's dropping Dallas, Gonzalez, Rice, and Forbath . He's not dropping 2.

There's also no universe where Steerboys doesn't drop 6+. 3? I easily count 5-6 on Puzzles.

Hey rafiki any of those guys you mention look like guys you're going to be chomping at the bit to draft? If no, then why are we doing this again?

In some cases yes. Some guys carrying 3 QB's aren't going to carry 3 QB's with some of the younger guys coming in. So ya I would like some, granted I admit that 80% I'll pass on. But that should be my choice.

Anyway why dont we just vote. It's already 2-2, we need more votes.

Sorry - been busy today - have not been able to articulately make my points.

Anyway, this argument goes both ways. If they are not important, then what's the harm of dropping them before the draft?

I do think there are absolute borderline droppable guys (Aaron Dobson is a perfect example for me). I may want to drop Dobson to get a shot at a 4th round pick in this deep draft. However, in that case, Dobson should also be available for other guys to draft since he would NOT be on my opening day roster.

agreed - just do a majority vote.

Ya Dobson was who I figured would make you closer to dropping 4-5 guys. I got commish dropping like 6 guys too fwiw. The average is going to come to 5 total rounds for sure.

The harm is it makes it much harder to trade or to buy back into the draft with 2015 picks. Really for nothing because the players dropped after the draft can still be claimed.

Only because you're counting kickers and defenses. Which means the team will either draft a kicker and defense or drop two players they just drafted for a kicker and defense a week later.

At the very least they will both be the same length.

/argument

im on the side of rafikis on this one

3-2 so far in favor of dropping (and I believe we're all in agreement on waivers carrying over from previous seasons, except random this year)

for people not reading everything, we're voting on dropping players before the draft, or not dropping (and making cuts after).

My vote is to drop players after the draft.

I vote for waivers to carry over except have them be random this year. However if there was a push for the waiver order to be reset to the reverse order of the standings after the season I would probably vote for that.