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Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling.

10-16-2015 , 03:31 AM
Interstate pooling has other potential conflicts. One is how taxes would be calculated. Another is that these sites operate in several states where there is a difference of opinion on legality. Another is that automation not available to all violates NV law (scripting at DFS might equal HUDs at WSOP.com).

It seems impossible to think these sites could get a NV gaming license while at the same time operating in 44 other states without one. MI and FL already have on record opinions that the activity is probably illegal, though I don't suppose those are legally binding, it is a cause for concern.

The NV licensing process is thorough. Making illegal sports bets or doing drugs recreationally on vacation have caused conflicts for people in the past. The same goes for suspicious bank transactioms. That discovery process might uncover insider secrets these sites don't want exposed. Then you have to submit your software for evaluation. You have to open your books and banking completely. Rev share affiliate agreements might also need certification like they do for online poker. That is just a sample.

This all seems like a lot of trouble and expense for a DFS site to expand its reach by 1% or so. Maybe a site would do it for the sole purpose of bragging that it was the first licensed DFS site. Amaya comes to mind there.

I think it is safe to say that DFS is dead in NV without a change in state law. The legislature doesn't meet again until 2017. I doubt this will be any sort of priority. There is no telling what the industry will look like by then either.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 03:43 AM
While I realize that Nevada is one of the smaller states, and likely the NGC wants a piece of the pie, I do wonder what happens to things like the Draft Kings sponsorship of the WSOP? I assume the contract is already in place, but will it be legal for them to advertise?

What about Nevada-based employees of Draft Kings, Fan Duel, etc.?
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moki
While I realize that Nevada is one of the smaller states, and likely the NGC wants a piece of the pie, I do wonder what happens to things like the Draft Kings sponsorship of the WSOP? I assume the contract is already in place, but will it be legal for them to advertise?

What about Nevada-based employees of Draft Kings, Fan Duel, etc.?
Speculative opinion here but I don't see why DFS can't advertise at WSOP. They aren't violating NV law as they left the state.

Party Poker sponsored WSOP after UIGEA. It didn't take NV players and wasn't licensed everywhere it operated but was generally believed to be legal in all jurisdictions. I don't see why DK is different than that scenario.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moki
While I realize that Nevada is one of the smaller states, and likely the NGC wants a piece of the pie, I do wonder what happens to things like the Draft Kings sponsorship of the WSOP? I assume the contract is already in place, but will it be legal for them to advertise?

What about Nevada-based employees of Draft Kings, Fan Duel, etc.?
Maybe they can resurrect Chris "Jesus" Fergusson and have him do some ads for "Play for free on DraftKings.NET"
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 06:04 AM
FU I liked those full tilt commercials with the jesus

..seriously though, pretty big news.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFly
LOL @ NGCB attempting a unilateral power grab. If I was Draft Kings/Fan Duel I would give the NGCB "the finger" and make them lawyer up and spend money to stop DFS in Nevada, and not just simply acquiesce to some bullchit memo power grab attempt.
good luck with that. not sure you understand how gaming regulators work or the powers they have.

Each state has to right to regulate gambling in their state.

DFS is Gambling.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall
Yup, just like how NGCB rushed to allow online poker and join pools with Delaware, the states are lining up...
In my mind, NGCB's position and influence as a gaming regulator within the media and the industry is a totally different issue than the state gaming regulators willing to work together toward promotion of online poker.

apples and oranges

I was simply calling out your assertion that NGCB action didn't matter in anything other than terms of lost liquidity.

Do you still believe that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monorail
Issue that I haven't seen addressed on OPR or elsewhere yet, though seems natural to ask: if DFS operators choose to seek, and are granted a NV license, I presume they'll be limited to an intrastate player pool. After all, if NVGCB's ruling is that it's gambling under NV law, it immediately kills any prospect of an interstate (or international) player pool (barring a compact, but that'll only happen if it's regulated in the other compacting state as well.) IOW, RIP DFS NV.
Couple things to consider about that.

1) This is a 12-18month process

2) If you are not a public company then everyone that owns any shares is required to go through personal investigations (one of the reasons most gaming companies are public)

3) If you are public, then only officers and directors PLUS owners with more than 5% (sometimes 10%) ownership might also have to get licensed.

4) #2 and or #3 would drag in MLB and other DFS site owners/investors in the licensing / investigation process

I'll let others decide how likely it is any of the major DFS sites choose to go thru the above.

Last edited by PTLou; 10-16-2015 at 06:58 AM.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 08:04 AM
Now we know how non-poker players view poker (as gambling). Look at how many times in this thread someone says DFS is gambling - and people on 2+2 are at least a little better informed than the average public.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou
good luck with that. not sure you understand how gaming regulators work or the powers they have.

Each state has to right to regulate gambling in their state.

DFS is Gambling.
Like someone else said its defo gambling with some skill involved. Had a nice unfettered run till ethans misstep to the tune of having 2 billion plus wagered. Shot themselves in the foot and will most likely wind up like Plaxico Buress in the coming months.

Fbi investigating will most likely carry over to the skill game issue and may have negative ramifications with fan duel and draftkings being able to operate freely. **** is going to hit the fan like it did with online poker. Pokerstars snap folded when things where spelled out and poker was no longer a gray area in terms of sites like pokerstars offering it. I would much rather be able to play poker and against row then fantasy sports. But seriously when people are spending 2 billlion and a very small percentage are significant winners other then the sites and the exorbitant rake they take in, can't really call that a skill game.

Last edited by ZeckoRiver; 10-16-2015 at 08:25 AM.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitch
Now we know how non-poker players view poker (as gambling). Look at how many times in this thread someone says DFS is gambling - and people on 2+2 are at least a little better informed than the average public.
LOL. True believer.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokervangelist
No doubt this opens up the floodgates banning DFS. GG DraftKings
Not necessarily. What this finding does is bring into focus the charade that DFS is not gambling.

What this means is that the NFL, NBA and other leagues cannot freely have it both ways, litigating against New Jersey's right to legalize sports-betting, while making money in DFS by pretending its "not sports gambling".

Under the Third Circuit case on appeal by New Jersey, the NFL thus far has successfully blocked New Jersey legalization of sports gambling, just as the League did versus Delaware earlier.

The NFL seems pressed now to argue that DFS is somehow different enough from "sports gambling" that regulation by States somehow passes muster under PASPA or they will need a new DFS carveout at the federal level.

The NFL should step back and realize the Leagues CAN have the benefits of increased viewer interest, touted by DFS, by simply supporting legalized sports betting. (The NBA seems to have had that epiphany already.)

The Leagues should support a new acronym, a re-tooled RAWA legislation to Repeal America's Wire Act.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
Not necessarily. What this finding does is bring into focus the charade that DFS is not gambling.

What this means is that the NFL, NBA and other leagues cannot freely have it both ways, litigating against New Jersey's right to legalize sports-betting, while making money in DFS by pretending its "not sports gambling".

Under the Third Circuit case on appeal by New Jersey, the NFL thus far has successfully blocked New Jersey legalization of sports gambling, just as the League did versus Delaware earlier.

The NFL seems pressed now to argue that DFS is somehow different enough from "sports gambling" that regulation by States somehow passes muster under PASPA or they will need a new DFS carveout at the federal level.

The NFL should step back and realize the Leagues CAN have the benefits of increased viewer interest, touted by DFS, by simply supporting legalized sports betting. (The NBA seems to have had that epiphany already.)

The Leagues should support a new acronym, a re-tooled RAWA legislation to Repeal America's Wire Act.
You can read the language in the uigea and see that it allows these fantasy contests whether it's gambling or not. Don't think it's necessarily relevant to the issue. If they go down this path they have to declare full season leagues illegal also...

I play Dfs but I don't bet sports. I'm sure some other people are the opposite (bet sports, don't play Dfs). It would probably be beneficial for sports leagues to have both but as long as the nfl has its current commissioner they will not admit that.

That's the only good news for keeping Dfs around in the rest of the country...the sports leagues like it so I'm sure they will have some influence in keeping it around in some parts of the country.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 11:48 AM
It's looking really bad in Florida too.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 11:53 AM
Boycott Vegas? I'd think a DFS player boycott could hurt their tourism as most who play are probably more likely to go to Vegas than those who don't , I doubt we could get enough players to agree on it though.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:02 PM
NV was the first state to legalize poker. DFS is blatantly breaking the law. It only exists because of some bull**** carve out that suggests it's a game of skill when anyone with a brain knows it's not. Why would you suggest to ban Vegas??? This will only help poker as it actually is a game of skill that DFS is not.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGnight
NV was the first state to legalize poker. DFS is blatantly breaking the law. It only exists because of some bull**** carve out that suggests it's a game of skill when anyone with a brain knows it's not. Why would you suggest to ban Vegas??? This will only help poker as it actually is a game of skill that DFS is not.
It is a game of skill though... So is poker. Both should be legal.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:08 PM
The thing about Florida is dfs is going to live and die with a state like that.

I'm already reading that money is flying around like crazy to make sure FL keeps DFS.

These sites can't afford to lose a FL, NY, etc. Nevada isn't really a big deal.

I'm definitely being optimistic but I don't think FL DFS is going anywhere. And if it does I think that's the beginning of the end for the whole thing.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou
Joe. be honest.

impact is way more than just Nevada Liquidity.

when NGCB comes out and says its gambling.... it will have ripple effect to other jurisdictions.
Yup. This was the first domino. DFS is done. Hopefully this event helps bring more light to poker since it actually IS a game of skill. If a bunch of people start bitching about their DFS being taken away then poker has to be considered as it has more right to exist than DFS.

I'm shocked they allow people to gamble on individual amateur players on DFS. That's just wrong.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaPete
You can read the language in the uigea and see that it allows these fantasy contests whether it's gambling or not. Don't think it's necessarily relevant to the issue. If they go down this path they have to declare full season leagues illegal also...

I play Dfs but I don't bet sports. I'm sure some other people are the opposite (bet sports, don't play Dfs). It would probably be beneficial for sports leagues to have both but as long as the nfl has its current commissioner they will not admit that.

That's the only good news for keeping Dfs around in the rest of the country...the sports leagues like it so I'm sure they will have some influence in keeping it around in some parts of the country.
i'm not sure, but i think you both try to say the same thing ... besides that Gzesh's argument is based on the PASPA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
Under the Third Circuit case on appeal by New Jersey, the NFL thus far has successfully blocked New Jersey legalization of sports gambling, just as the League did versus Delaware earlier.

The NFL seems pressed now to argue that DFS is somehow different enough from "sports gambling" that regulation by States somehow passes muster under PASPA or they will need a new DFS carveout at the federal level.
i'm only a layman with this whole 'stuff', so maybe you can help me with this

- didn't Delaware 'opt in' back then. i thought there are 3 or 4 other states (besides nevada) who could offer sports betting, but they just don't?
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:12 PM
I'm in Florida and am in full blown panic mode. Withdrawing almost all my money after this weekend
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:15 PM
I think this is similar to what happened to UBER in vegas DFS isnt going to get the support of the sportsbooks, if it comes down to a group of old fogies deciding if they want to allow DFS something they dont understand but see as some type of competition to the state bottom line the answer will be no, DFS have any experience going rouge?
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:17 PM
Even if it gets banned you'll be able to get your money out so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

But honestly I understand your concern. I just can't imagine it being easy for them to drop Florida.

Florida will be the fight for the whole industry basically. The other states that aren't allowed aren't very important to these sites. This will be the first time you see lobbyists and money in full support. This won't be the instaban like the others were.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:23 PM
After my best week ever. Now stuck. Unbelievable.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:28 PM
Now only ROW players can play DFS a american based concept LOLOLOLOLOL..... living in merica yeah gotta fight livin in merica yeah all night
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote
10-16-2015 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly
...

t Gzesh's argument is based on the PASPA.




i'm only a layman with this whole 'stuff', so maybe you can help me with this

- didn't Delaware 'opt in' back then. i thought there are 3 or 4 other states (besides nevada) who could offer sports betting, but they just don't?
Great question, seriously.

Yes, four States were grandfathered in, including Nevada and Delaware. (If I recall correctly, New Jersey and other States had 1 year to opt-in to legalize, but NJ sat on its hands.)

Delaware tried a couple of years ago to expand into straight-up sportsbetting, but was blocked by litigation brought by the NFL, which claimed that Delaware could only provide the same sort of "sportsbetting" that had been authorized by the State and was grandfathered in. In the case of Delaware, this meant lottery-type sports gambling. (This was a truly nitty ruling against Delaware, but effective in limiting Delaware to what was authorized back in 1991.)

THAT Delaware case and NFL position may really haunt the League if the issue of a State "authorizing" DFS ever is litigated under PASPA. Presumably PASPA is to be read very strictly, (thank you, NFL), and only sportsbetting that was authorized "way back when" is grandfathered

(Nevada by statute expressly, and broadly authorized regulating and offering sportsbetting by "any method" even "way back when". A really nice example of how to remain open to industry development, even while regulating operations.)

What further complicates the DFS as gambling issue in New Jersey is that, a few years ago, New Jersey went ahead and declared Fantasy Sports to NOT be gambling.

Last edited by Gzesh; 10-16-2015 at 12:47 PM.
Legality of offering DFS in Nevada, it's sports gambling. Quote

      
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