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Winrate in and out of position Winrate in and out of position

09-01-2009 , 08:37 AM
How many ptbb/100 do you win from the button, cut off, and hijack? How many ptbb/100 do you lose from BB and small blind? How much bb is considered a leak? how many is average? how many = crushing?
Winrate in and out of position Quote
09-01-2009 , 09:17 AM
I refuse to answer this, however, I thought I could add some input to the thread without answering your questions.

First, win rate converges very slowly. super slow. 100k hands or worse slow. Its a big problem in poker that the winrates are small compared to the variance, and as such we hardly ever know what our real expectation was.

Win rate by position converges roughly 6x slower than that (or 9x slower for the earliest positions), except in heads up where it is 2x as slow. No matter how "regular" your results might look by position, the fact of the matter is that there is a very high degree of variability in those numbers, and we simply cannot rely on them by position like that until we have lots (100kish?) hands per seat.

Its really hard to win so much that we can be positive net in either blind (perhaps at lowest stakes we might win in the small if we have a 20BB/100 or higher type winrate). Many people I have talked to say winning anything more than what you have to post is good. We should lose .25BB per hand or less in the small and .5BB per hand or less in the big.

Most of the profits in poker come from the button. I have seen .5BB per hand over thousands at a few different levels, but its usually not that big. If you are winning less than .1BB per hand in the button its probably problematically low.

4Card
Winrate in and out of position Quote
09-01-2009 , 06:26 PM
Good Position:
You act last and thus get the Advantage of seeing how your opponent responds to future cards. You should significantly win more chips and will make fewer mistakes from Good Position.

Bad Position:
You act first and thus don't know if your opponent will Fold, Call, or Raise if you bet...Same thing if you Check because your opponent can respond with a Check or Bet. You should significantly reduce the number of hands that you play in bad position to avoid losing $$$ which you may have won had you played the same hand in Good position.

As Daniel Negreaunu said on TV "Position is Power"
Winrate in and out of position Quote
09-25-2009 , 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacicic
How many ptbb/100 do you win from the button, cut off, and hijack? How many ptbb/100 do you lose from BB and small blind? How much bb is considered a leak? how many is average? how many = crushing?
Don't remeber the source but I read somewhere that loosing around -25bb/100 from big blind and -15bb/100 from small blind is acceptable for a solid player.

I tend to think:

BB: -25/100
SB: -15/100
========
B: +25/100
CO: +12.5/100
HJ: + 5/100
UTG:+ 5/100

above would give us 7.5bb/100 winratre. As the average 6-max table caters for 5.5 players you should cut -10% ie. seems 6.75/100 bb winrate seems pretty close to solid.

The variance is huge tho... Just to give an example: Theoretically a relly long term 5bb/100 winning player can be losing as much as -11bb/100 during first 20k of hands. After 250k hands even the worst case should be break even. That is extreme but possible.

My 2 cents. Any comments well appreciated too
Winrate in and out of position Quote

      
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