Studying unnatural turn bets on BTNvsBB on A high flops I have the some doubts and theories and I would like to know your opinion:



Why does the solver bet with 6x like K6s, Q6s, J6s instead of checking? To fold the middle range of my oponent 3x, 4-9x?

Why does the solver bet with Q7s, J7s, 85s? No idea at all, to balance value-bluffs?

How do you come to heuristics for this turn unnatural bets?

Polarizing on low turn cards after x/c from BB when you pair that card is common--esp on A high flops. You reduce the combos oop has of turned 2p/sets, still have them fold better hands, deny a lot of equity, and still have some equity when called.

Interesting, I'm new with solvers so I guess since the bdfds bricked we have to choose that hands as overbet. Do you know where I can learn more from unnatural bets on turn or do you consider them irrelevant for higher winrate?

I'm not aware if there is some free material out there going over turn strategies, but you could try looking at GTOwizards youtube channel.

It is relevant and worth studying. I wouldn't really consider this "unnatural" either. There are more mergy/unnatural types of turn betting as EP vs BB in a bunch of nodes which I don't think most players find, you could do some solves for that node and look into it a bit.

Is there any school or course where they teach that strategies? I was considering "unnatural" bc is not like a natural draw bet on turn for example 85s in the example above, but yeah I don't know the specific term.

I'll look into it, trying to make my own interpretations for now.

I'm not aware of any videos, but you could look at runitonce's library of videos also. I think they are good value for the essential level ($25/month I think).

It might help to think of the 6x bets as being like a 5-out draw semibluff to 2-pair+.

It is fairly common to bet with a small pair that can fold out better pocket pairs, for example, and has outs against an ace.

The reason you prefer to use 6x over 3x is because of the blocker effects brokenstars alluded to.

A lot of the way the villain protects their range on this type of board is by turning 2 pair+ on some cards. Many flopped two pairs and sets could have already check-raised flop. Whereas hands like A6s would be more likely to be in their range in this node. That's why you would generally prefer to semi bluff with 6x over 3x. You will block more 2-pair+ hands that way.

Personally, the way I think about these types of spots, I try to make the more obvious bluffs (I would consider the 6x significant). Then the more you study you can later add in the less intuitive ones. If you miss betting with Q7s, J7s, and 85s the EV loss will likely be minimal. You just don't want to underbluff so much that your opponent can exploitatively overfold, but it's better to miss a few bluffs than to punt off with bluffs you shouldn't be making.

It's more important to play the value portion of your range correctly, IMO, where the EV difference between betting and checking can be larger. I would focus on that first.

Anyway good luck.

Thanks for the explanation man very clear. This example on Axx flops was new to me bc on Kxx, Qxx, Jxx turn 6 solver doesn't use more 6x + Broadway and likes more to use overcards.

Similar concept...

AX on KXXL turn, has equity against top of calling range + makes better hands fold.

LX on AXXL turn, has equity against top of calling range + makes better hands fold + blocks best combos of OOP range (XL, AL two pairs)

Something like QXXL where hero has KJ and bluffs is same thing, equity against top of calling range, makes better hands fold, and blocks some of the better calls (KQ/QJ). Less incentive to bluff with LX turn here since OOP defends some A highs and you have other hands to choose from to fill in the bluffs. You'll also see low pocket pairs be put into a polarized betting range on turns on like AXX as well... like 22-55 type hands, that mostly unblock villains range and get the same benefits.... getting better to fold + still having a small amount of equity to improve to a set.

So summing up the idea for betting is unblocking folding range + some equity to redraw top calling range? I guees with a ton of practice you master it. I'm currently playing NL50 and didn't know this, so much to learn.

Blocker effects, especially in wide formations are probably the least important factor here. Your overall equity compared to that what is calling + what is folding is more important... in combination with how that interacts with your overall range that is betting + checking.

"bluffs" can be taken from a wide range of hands and usually only a small subset of your "bluffs" on a turn formation are going to be pure bets. You have a lot of hands to choose from basically, so you choose hands that have the above characteristics.

There are GTOWizard coaching videos on this topic. They are very good.

With premium subscription right?

https://www.youtube.com/@GTOWizard

Ok thanks, another question I hope I'm not annoying. Why does the solver prefer to bluff river with Axs of spades rather and diamonds, clubs and hearts on this formation? Who do I choose which suiteds are better to bluff with?

The answer is always because of some subtle blocker effects. The real answer is it doesn't matter. Clicking through a bunch of nodes and evaluating the river where you're specifically focusing on the suits of the bluffs in a situation where there are no flush draws is something you do not want to be focusing on.