I'm thinking about this in regards to tournament play in 3bet 4bet 5bet situations. Is there an advantage to being one or the other? Does it change based on what the effective stacks are?

If we are the jammer we get the benefit of fold equity and having bluffs while the caller is handcuffed to winning a showdown. However the caller can control what hands he takes to showdown and will have a stronger range. He also gets to make the last non-allin raise which leverages the opponents entire stack.

If one is more beneficial should we change our raise sizes to set us up for it?

EDIT: Nvm, I thought you were talking about push/fold situations late in tourneys. I think you gotta define a little bit more on what you're asking.. there are just so many missing variables. These situations depend on so much information.

Button vs Blinds with 20bb is the classic example.

Blinds 500/1000/100

Button 20k
SB 20k
BB 20k

Folds around to button. If the blinds are going to jam over a raise aggressively the button can take the play away by limping then jamming over a raise.

If the stack sizes are increased to 30k. Then he can raise 2k, if reraised to 6k he can comfortably jam for 30k.

Now at 40k I'm not sure what's best. If button raises to 2k and is reraised to 6k he is forced to make a small 4bet or a large jam. But if he opens for 3k instead and is reraised to 8k, it seems jamming now becomes more reasonable.

Neither has an inherent advantage solely based on the fact they were the last to raise.

You are right about one thing though; we should plan our betsizes and actions as far in advance as possible.

I would say the Jammer because you also get to control your range, and can manipulate it to make it difficult for the opponent to profit with his. Like if you 3bet a guy where he's weak, even if he gets to choose what hands he continues and has a stronger range when he calls, he may have that stronger range a small enough amount of the time that it doesn't matter.

So I'd say the Jammer based on how accurately he's able to determine the caller's ranges.

it depends. mostly on what u have. what they have. who's playing back at u and what they think u have etc etc.

there's no best way. and neither is inherently better than the other. (imo)

well if they're better than you i'd rather jam and get lucky but that's a different point.

i prefer having a balanced strategy (which includes different opening sizes including limp). no need to think if i already have it sorta worked out.

and might do different things if opponents tend to flat versus raise versus jam.

ok fine i have no idea what to do to be honest. lol

If we ignore exploitation there is no advantage simply being the last person to raise.

Imagine 2 opponents that are playing at equilibrium. At each player's action they will choose a range to raise, call, or fold.

Each raising range contains value hands and bluffs. Each calling range contains hands that weren't strong enough to value raise but weren't weak enough to fold.

For each raise this process repeats until we get to all in. Each player loses hands at each decision point to other ranges. So what happens on the final raise and the decision to call?

Well the jammer has valuebets and bluffs and the caller has hands that would have been value raises as well as profitable calls that would have been calls whether or not there was any money left to raise.

So the jammer's EV is an aggregate of the bluffs folding out better hands as well as enticing calls from hands that are weaker than the value hands and from value hands winning a significant portion of the time vs all ins. The caller's EV is a result of all of his otherwise profitable calls beating the bluffs and the unrealized value raises calling and winning a significant portion of the times at all ins.

Each gets value from the worse part of the other's ranges. The worse parts are there in order to entice the other to pay off value hands in the other's range more than they should.

So as I have said being the final aggressor does not benefit you in any way. Being aggressive is beneficial in games where exploitation takes place, but that is different that what the OP is asking.

Questions like these are quite nonsensical.

i mean things are drastically different from 7 bb to 10bb to 15bb to 20bb to 30bb etc. especially at the shorter stacks. so YES i would definitely say that you should be setting up with regards to the stack sizes. but with 3 players it gets plenty complicated in a way that i'm not sure how to solve it. so i wing it lol.

maybe some spin and go / heads up pros can help u with this question.

+1

It's completely situational.