I guess that's the only way it could be accurate, but with effective stacks of roughly 3/4 psb it's pretty hard to imagine snowie is bet/folding 1/2 pot in position enough for a c/r bluff to be profitable. I guess it's possible though.

EVs aren't EV vs snowie's own ranges. Just read the snowie FAQ, this is all in there.
They are (supposed to be) the EV numbers snowie arrived at from it's training, which includes playing against non-snowie strategies. On top of that they are likely heavily bucketed which means they are approximations based on EV of 'smiliar hands on similar boards at similar stack depths', and we're not sure how similar is defined here.

At best they are possibly somewhat close / loose approximations of EV for a general situation against the range of strategies snowie's strategy has played against. You can decide how much that is worth to you.

Yea i def think base my game on really (trying to) GTO heavy strat on NL50/100 is probably really sub-optimal
So still really worth and really good to improve just to get a more clear vision ?

Could you get better without it? Probably. It's just 1 of many tools out there that serious players are using to try and get an edge.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Def want to get as much edge and improvements that i can so if you tell me that i could get good without it but i would definitely improve way more with it that means that i should get it 100% for me

But i heard differents opinion on snowie so i'm still not sure if i would improve that much more with or without snowie and that's what i'm trying to figure out

I heard also there's another software that's apparently popular GTORB, what do you think about this one as well ? (still for me to improve at NL50 to put the context)

I was actually going to mention GTORB and piosolver as tools that I would use before snowie.

Caveat: I have never used any of these tools. This is all from second hand knowledge from around the forums.

I'm going to save some of you uncertain people about whether to use this software or not. I will let you in on the secrets of my experience and opinions of Poker Snowie.


Snowie will make your game unnecessarily passive in a lot of spots and overly aggressive in other spots. After training with it it actually ruined my winrate and really hurt my game. Supposedly I played at an extraterrestrial level, but in the real world I was playing like a fish, because that is what it teaches you to do.

Is Snowie GTO, No. Snowie is strong enough to maybe beat 25nl. Maybe break even at 50nl, but anything beyond that and it probably can't win. Anyone want to prove me wrong, go ahead and do it.

It is quite well balanced, but there are spots where it folds like 90% of its range when it clearly shouldn't. I think Snowie is a moderate opponent don't get me wrong. I just don't think it is strong enough to beat 100nl+. So if you are a micro stakes player go ahead and learn its strategy. If you are at 100nl or 200nl stay clear away from it, because you won't be able to win anymore if you abide by it religiously.

If Snowie really was as good as the makers say it is, top pros would be all over this stuff, but they aren't. So don't waste your time and money.

It seems like the poker fad of today is everyone wants to play a GTO approximation strategy. If you get to wrapped up in game theory land you will end up making bad calls and bad bluffs. If you somehow succeed your profits will be minimal.

In reply to the following response in advance:
"It is a poker learning tool. You aren't suppose to play exactly like it, you're suppose to learn possible strategies in certain spots yadayadayada-blahblah."

My ass it is.

Rant = Over

Oh boy, there we go again ...

This is my experience of it too , unfortunately . I spent a lot of time training with it and it seems great when playing the challenges but somehow it doesn't seem to be very effective IRL . I could beat 50nl ok but I was more or less b/e at 100 zoom . Obviously I wasn't playing exactly snowie style and I didn't get all the frequencies right but I had an overall error rate of about 4.5 after 100000+ hands and often I'd feel really frustrated trying to play like snowie in certain spots . It felt "technically correct" except my opponent was probably playing a long way from what snowie expected . I learnt some stuff from it that I continue to adopt in my current play but I've also had to unlearn quite a lot of spots where it seems to either get run over too much or leave too much money on the table
Maybe someone else could learn it's style better than me but I put a LOT of effort in to modelling my game around it's style and the results were a bit disappointing tbh

Its going to be a lonely Snowie white Christmas for me too. But we press on!

^^ there were so many warnings in this very thread a long time ago: *don't use a piece of software to learn poker when you don't know how good the underlying strategy really is.

Snowie doesn't play optimally in most spots, and it does in a few spots stray so far from the optimum that it can be easily exploited there. That's pretty disappointing tbh...
But with its overall strategy Snowie probably comes as close to the optimum as many of the winning GTO-style players.
Don't be stubborn though, it has no idea how to play max EV against bad players! Of course you gotta adapt to them.

The amount of knowledge you need to have about Snowies exact strategy to be able to copy it is near infinite, and even if you know it inside out you still have the impossible task of applying it on the tables. There are an incredibly large number of crucial nuances that Snowie has in his game that can't possibly be learnt in a lifetime, and least of all correctly applied in game. Just take a look at different stacksizes and how they influence all of the ranges and frequencies just preflop alone! If you think you can ever imitate Snowie more than 70%, think again...
I mean, I can imagine someone imitating Snowie up to 80% after some years of analysis. But to claim you can imitate it so well after less than a year that you can conclude with confidence from your resulting winrate that its strategy is inferior to a self made GTO-based strategy... I'm not buying it.

What you can certainly say is that Snowies strategy will not win anywhere near the maximum amount in our human games. That's not for strategical reasons though, it's because Snowie doesn't train against very bad players who make up the vast majority of everyones winrate, hence its strategy leaves value out on the table in human games.
It's still far better than most human strategies though which can be seen by Snowies +-0 winrate against top players and a huge winrate against bad players. You gotta admit it's f**ing tough even for expert players to not get owned by Snowie in HU or 6-max, even after they've already learned a lot about its strategy.

one thing that strucks me about pokersnowie is that there is a limited number of scenarios to be made right? for instance each month 500 however if you want to reverse your action
while doing so for instance you put $200 instead of $100 stacks how you've wanted to do so, you have to make a whole new scenario and as far as I know this counts already as a 1. Nobody is that careful to never make a mistake so I consider this a bit of a cheap move done on purpose to make money on people. You should have an ability to be reversing how many times the **** you want without any consequences IMHO.

Have you ever reached the monthly limit? I build/study multiple scenarios every day (and swap the board cards and hole cards frequently) and I've never gone over the limit.

well somehow I actually have, that's why I'm talking about it? you have only 100 scenarios to be done per month

Oh, now I see there's a lower limit on the 'starter' and 'intermediate' packages. I can understand that might be quite limiting, but you get what you pay for I suppose. I have the 'pro' subscription that allows 3000 scenarios per month.

100??? That seams unreal

you can actually swap stakes, cards, stack-sizes w/o making a new scenario, by just clicking on it : ). AFAIK To reverse an action like check however you have to make a new one and imho it's quite a cheap move


p.s. though I feel glad for your 'pro' subscription that allows 3000 scenarios per month : )

I've never tried with the other stuff, but swapping in different cards uses up scenarios.

Regarding top pros being all over snowie I've heard some mention it as kind like a dictionary/benchmark. For example Doug Polk and Ben sulsky have both referred to it in a non negative way. In fact I think Polk mentioned he'd check snowie on spots vs claudico in his AI challenge.

Not sure but I got the feeling that was a tool some high stakes players used to develop ranges in spots. .....

Any one else have any info ?

I look at snowie's ranges sometimes. Doesn't take much investigation into snowie to tell it is completely wrong in some river spots though.

Would you like to post some example screenshots ?

was the monthly PRO option taken away?
It's really disappointing if it was

I don't use Snowie anymore, so no.