Would you please deliver THE answer ..... We can't discuss it without knowing it.

EXACTLY!!

I sense a Manifesto coming...

You're really annoying, acting like you're Will from Good Will Hunting or something. Also your .3% of the population claim is clearly made up. How could any test determine this? IQ tests lose so much predictive validity trying to distinguish between people at this level, so I dont see how a question about a poker hand can do this.

Tabueno i gave you an out. Take it! Before its too late to salvage respect for a finally worthy thread (and this only if you also apologize to all involved for the initially rejected legitimate answers to your starting question). The answer is either a trick (which fails to be worthy really as a learning point of thinking since a trick can be anything) or is the 56s in the orginal question or the 8c7c in the Durrr case.

Stop insulting people and just claim you didnt see my post yet. If you did see my post i want you to prove me i am wrong and point what i am missing. I also challenge you to at least answer this; Is the hand dealt a legitimate poker hand that plays out and is valid without any tricks? You need to at least separate your problem to a real problem or a tricky one because theory deals with real problems not tricks. At least then we can stop wasting time if so.

You need to man up come out and say sorry for not posing it properly from the start and then going back and forth . If you want to talk about totalitarianism supressing free thinking you need to understand that the root of the evil of totalitarian systems is the inability to accept responsibility for an initially dogmatically trusted position that is proven logically wrong later. This is the true evil. Communism predominantly failed because if failed freedom , respect for individualism and responsible ethical conduct (part of respecting truth not ego) before all else that was wrong. That in the end victimized also whatever good existed in it. After all you can find good in all systems even the most supressing ones because potential for good is a property of human spirit especially at times it is operating under a well organized effort that is either approached freely or with questionable enforcement.

sorry I can't apologize for something I didn't do wrong. The question is there, I can write it everytime you want, but it's there and it's not a stupid trick.

If it was I wouldn't have post it on here but on NVG or BBV probably. But I posted here for a reason, to get somer serious answers.

I did apologize for writing "would like" instead of "wouldn't like" in some of my posts, which could have made a misleading effect on the readers.

That's all I have to say.

Why won't you say what the answer is?

Managing to draw an analogy between totalitarian regimes and the OP is fantastic, especially when he has been trying to do so unsuccessfully with the mods. You sir, are a genius.

isn't it obvious?

I will wait for some guy to come and give it out.

Isn't it obvious that this isn't going to happen? And Rusty has already made it clear that if you don't he's going to lock this thread in 4.5 hours.

I have to apologize for 1 more thing.

The reason I don't say the answer yet, is not obvious as I said previously, but I will explain it later on if the thread is still open.

Well thats great seeing as you know the thread will be locked later on.

I still don't get it, the best hand i wouldn't like to see is AA, the worst hand i would like to see is A8o, so the worst hand i wouldn't like to see is AA as well because any hand that's worse, the better i'd like to see it.

look as I put it on the title, "let me see how you think" it's a thinking process that very few people in the world have. That's why I said it many times, don't give me the answer, give me THE answer. This might sound a little bit contradictory but it's not, and I know many understand what I mean, but they don't have the ability to figure it out. You can read the question 10 20 240 times, but if you don't have that ability you won't be able to deliver it. If you read it 5 times and you haven't got the answer yet, I stronly suggest you stop trying because it won't take you any further. Those who can give THE answer will figure it out inmediately or maybe after 2 or 3 tries.

the "out of the box thing" is so important here, so important.


EDIT: well I might be wrong, maybe if you try really hard you might get close after the 40th try, im not sure, but it might be possible donno

Are you going to post THE answer or are you going to let the thread get locked?

is the other guy left or right handed?

You don't state where in the hand you are. I don't want to see him flop the nut straight flush.

Specify at least if your game is holdem and not some stupid no limit omaha (or pot limit reraised many times) that you are dealt AAAA lol!


Look do you seriously insist that your question is still ;

"you are dealt aces, villain goes all in, you obviously call. What's the worst hand you would like to see when Villain shows his hand on the table (except for aces)?

Specify further worse for us or him?

You have already received answers that are legitimate. If you are asking which is the worse possible hand for us he can show in a cash game its 5h6h (say vs ours AsAd) in terms of equity. The best we like to see is A9o. For a satellite special case of the Durrr example if stacks are very close at the last hand played forced to play you like actually the other AA to show because this is the hand with the smallest pure win probability against ours (hence we lose the 1mil contest prop bet the least times) . If you exclude that from answer you jump to the next best thing for us Ah9s (one of them say) and the worse is 7h8h because it has the highest win probability vs AA.


Look there is noway the answer is something else if you define the game to be NL holdem and reject tricky answers that invalidate the hand dealt as trivially uninteresting.

Sometimes it is actually possible to know you have the answer and its no longer a matter of limited inside the box imagination.

Some well posed questions have answers that are easy to prove are final.

You either wish not to lose or maximize cash return. That is the only distinction. You ask what is best for us or for him . You got answers for both.

The only tricky thing however left is some rake consideration that was never made so far since this was assumed a big game contest with rake not material (certainly true in the challenge games or tourneys etc)

You need to make very sure you have posed a well defined question without loopholes.

Make a final formulation of the question and stand by it before the thread closes. You have received answers so far for all that has been asked .

The rake case however has not been answered.

When you have rake you pay the rake (say uncapped for this game to simplify it) when you win and share it when you tie . So if the pot is S and your contribution heads up is S/2 and the rake pot ratio is say x then when you win you get back S*(1-x) . When you tie you get back S*(1-x)/2.Overall then your EV is ;

Pwin*S(1-x)+Ptie*S*(1-x)/2-Plose*S/2 or

S*(Pwin*(1-x)+Ptie*(1-x)/2-Plose/2)

Since Plose=1-Pwin-Ptie this becomes;

(Pwin*(1-x)+Ptie*(1-x)/2-(1-Pwin-Ptie)/2)


So you want to see the hand that maximizes
-(1/2) + Ptie + (3 Pwin)/2 - (Ptie x)/2 - Pwin x

Which for any given x can be searched for .


Anyway make sure when you pose questions and then insist as a form of quiz like testing people , that you offer them a very well posed problem without ambiguity. Otherwise the case is unacceptable for wasting time and playing with people instead of educating them as the purpose ought to be here.

The hand that will become the nuts after the river, even though i dont know what that is yet.

You also need to specify you are talking about his pocket hand or final formed hand lol etc. Basically you need to come out and clarify exactly what you are asking making sure there is no tricky word play game here. We are dealing with math here not various interpretation of syntax or grammar etc. In terms of math the way you posed it the answers have been given even with plenty of added details (like rake or various interpretations). In terms of math the criterion is equity in rake free cash game or loss probability in a Durrr type event or some rake adjusted $EV in cash game with rake etc

I'm considering giving out the answer in the next couple of hours, tomorrow maybe.

This question is obvioulsy a test, and the answer is pretty straight forward.

xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx because xxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx (or something like that)

That's all I was looking for, not a one whole page development, no. It's a simple (with complicated insight) sentence that's all.

did you write the question or are you just posting it, this answer is playing a big part in my decision to check back to see the answer when given.

Tomorrows after midnight i believe, thats the most complicated insight i can offer unfortunatly.

The answer is pretty starightforward, but only .3% of every human being on earth will get it right? Wow! You dont have much faith in humanity do you?

When I said straight forward I meant that it's not a large 3,000 words development, full of formulas and equations. It's straight forward because the answer could be explained in one short sentence, altho It has a deep insight.

This thread will be locked by tomorrow, where tomorrow is defined by 12:00am central time.