This is revolutionary?

@Lego05 I applaud your efforts but just to save you some time Yadula's answers won't change from what you've already gotten and eventually will just devolve into the parts that are condescending to you and crying victim.

Yeah man you got it! You just have to make sure that its going to be profitable and you have your play. Aggressive players are easy to abuse with this type of play, you can get them to go mental pretending to have the nuts themselves... Do you see that it gives you more board coverage?

Man, it'd be good to have you on the team. What you reckon to CogD?

It's the CogD and everything that goes with it that's revolutionary. When players learn how easy it is to exploit they will realise that there is little or no point in learning GTO.

You get pre-adjusting now Heehaw?

Ok. Now I understand what you mean when you say “pre-adjusting.”

Explain it to Arty, and some other people. See what they say.

Back in 2010 we called it levelling

Trouble is you can't level a rock paper scissors bot can you ? It randomly picks rock paper or scissors and doesn't care about your earlier actions

Equally you can't level a gto poker bot . It doesn't care what you think you are doing with perceived ranges or w/e because it plays it's range perfectly and all you can hope to do is play perfectly in order to break even with it

Yes , of course we play against humans (mostly) and humans have psychology and can therefore be manipulated . Plus of course all humans are playing suboptimally already

The trouble with your theory is that you're assuming your opponent incorrectly ranges you . If there is a spot where you believe that an opponent always thinks you 4bet AA so instead you just call then you believe that you will be able to get more profit out of him because he will not put AA in your range (incorrectly ranging you) . This might work but once your opponent has seen this he now knows that AA is in your call range there at some frequency . So now are you never going to do it again ? Because now he knows your range includes AA . So maybe you now don't call AA in this spot until you believe he thinks AA is now no longer in your range and then you do it again ? Or maybe now he has seen you had AA there then next time you pretend to have AA again when you don't have it ?It's all a bit rock paper scissors tbh . It's called levelling lol you should call your book "The art of the Level" Maybe your whole account is a big level

It's not levelling. There is no trouble with this theory Frogman. And this isn't actually my theory, I dont know who came up with pre-adjusting.

You cannot beat a GTO bot, we all know this, and it is irrelevant. There are still times to pre-adjust for extra money.

I say that it allows you to play cards outside of your perceived range but this is just a golden, ideal pre-adjustment. Lego said it well. All you are trying to do is separate your perceived range from your actual range. This may just mean that the opponent puts more strength in your range when really you hold less. They dont have to completely remove from your range the thing that you actually hold.

You say that the reason this wont work is because the opponent will see it, which is always a reason why anything exploitative wont work, if the opponent knows we bluff lots it isn't going to work anymore. And funnily enough, pre-adjusting is about the most deceptive kind of play you can make, it's extremely difficult for the opponent to see what you are doing. When they see you show up with strength they just think that they got unlucky and hit the smaller part of your range. When they think you hold strength and they fold they dont see anything. Even when they do see that you show up with something that they didn't consider in the slightest, they will not be able to work out what you did unless they know how to pre-adjust themselves. They will rack their brain trying to work out how you showed up with such cards, and, that's when cognitive dissonance will kick in. "YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE HELD THOSE CARDS! YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE HOW TO PLAY POKER!!". Its not just on the forums that I hear this stuff. My opponents go mental at me whilst I destroy them over, and over, and over again.

My book is called "The Levels - Learn How All Players Think Through Their Plays". And this whole levelling thing only comes into it when both players are capable of all the Levels of thought. Most people cant even apply Level Three, and so we can apply it ourselves and absolutely destroy them.

Everyone who has ever played poker, including the rec player who slowplays and hollywoods (sometimes giving a speech about how much they hated that card) every time they have a strong hand, thinking they're the most clever person in the room.

haha

Yeah, he keeps talking about some pretty basic concepts like they're something completely new that he just discovered.

The very fact that he thinks levels 3,4 or pre-adjusting are super advanced concepts is a proof that he's actually very inexperienced and on a far lower relative level than he thinks.

He's writing a book about exploiting, even though majority of poker players probably understand every single thing that's written in it. His thoughts aren't advanced at all.

Also, in all of his arguments he's assuming that he's an omnipotent being that can level everyone. That's far from the truth though, in a big majority of spots you CAN'T know what opponent's tendencies are/what level they're on, and therefore HAVE to use GTO in order to play optimally. That's why his argument that "you don't need to know anything about GTO if you're using exploitative strategy" is wrong.

Just wait til he starts streaming.

He hasn't played poker in like 3 years though, so I don't know where he'll be getting all the info on his opponent's tendencies.

Guys, seriously...

I mean, frogman, you clearly didn't have a clue what were on about after Lego explained it for the 1000th time.

Heehaw, I explained it to you 999 times and you didn't get it. I'm guessing that you still dont have a clue what we're on about lol. Can you prove it in some way??

Brokenstars, I thought you wanted coaching?? (didn't buy it for a second, but I did silence you before you could even say anything lol)

And Zkesic, I mean, can you post your graph mate, let everyone see that you cant even beat the micros.

You guys clearly have no shame. I might stream. And I can show you guys how to make hundreds of thousands. Are any of you in any profit? Come on. Instead of just mocking me and saying I'm some kind of fool have some pride. Show everyone watching that you are better. Prove you know how to pre-adjust, or show us some winnings. Something. It really is dirty pretending to know everything that I say, pretending to be more advanced than me. Following me around trying to discredit everything I say without anything to back it up.

Lego, what do you reckon to pre-adjusting? You're consciously aware of how to do it now, can you see how awesome a move it is? It is something we can all do naturally, but dont mistake that with it being something anybody can do. These GTO guys cant do it. Notice that they still didn't mention pre-adjusting or anything about it in any of their posts. I'm not buying all this for a second. This is just standard attempts to discredit the exploiter and promote GTO...

You've gone all quiet brokenstars, Zkesic, Heehaw, frogman... I wonna see some graphs, come on, you've seen mine where are yours? Wheres that evidence eh? Do any of you know how to pre-adjust yet?? Lego showed us that he gets it. Why dont you show us how to pre-adjust preflop? or give us an example of an effective pre-adjustment??? Come on lads, you got anything for us??? Anything except mindless insults?

For example, when you have a super tight image, you can "pre-adjust" preflop by 3betting hands like QJ vs opponents who think your 3bet range is [QQ+, AK]. This way you have +EV bluffs on A/K high boards and a nice value hand on Q/J high boards (since opponets bluffcatch too much because they put you on AK). This is something I was doing back when I started playing poker and was still a huge nit. I really don't think it's advanced.

Another thing: when you're playing GTO, you don't really have an "image" that you'd need to be balancing by re-exploiting opponents.
Also, all of the hands that you're playing preflop when you're pre-adjusting (for example JQ here), are in GTO's range from the start. So by pre-adjusting, you aren't really doing anything "out of the box".

Well done! You came up with perhaps the worst pre-adjustment of all time lol. Who do you think is bluff catching against a 3% 3betting range!! Hahaha. All you just did there was say to play a hand that you wouldn't usually play. Terrible, terrible example. I dont think it even fulfills the criteria, when you pre-adjust you need to take advantage of the opponents wrong assumption in the future. But your strategy would lose you lots and lots of money.

However, that is better than I expected from you.

Those GTO ranges that you start with are derived from the pre-adjustments. Not the other way around. Exploitation is what that box is made of.

Zkesic, to do a proper pre-adjustment, and not just a random one off bet. You have to replace a hand in your perceived range with something unexpected.

In your example, if you're playing the QJ aswell as your other hands the opponent will put you on nearly a 5% opening range. They will see that you dont have just AK and QQ+ in your range. See what I'm saying. You're just talking about a random one off bet, that doesn't even work! If you are pre-adjusting properly you will see that there is always a gap between the perceived range and the actual range because you have to remove the worst hands in your percieved range and replace them with the unexpected cards. Which, we cant really do with your example because you would be removing the AK!

But, then, I guess you already knew all that. There is no point in me explaining anything to you guys, right? You're all miles ahead of me with plays like this. These plays are too good for me to even comprehend. You were blatantly just testing me with this random play! You knew it wasn't a proper pre-adjustment. Obviously.

People that I was playing against were folding around 20% vs 3bets, even vs me. They're called loose fish, and they call in order to "outplay" postflop (kinda like you).

This is literally the definition of pre-adjusting. Like Lego said: “Pre-adjusting is making a play on an earlier street that will cause our perceived range to be different from our actual range on later streets.” - my perceived range was QQ+ AK, in reality I was holding JQ. It's obvious that you don't even understand what we're talking about.

I explained above, how I took advantage of the opponents wrong assumption in the future. For example, I was CBetting A/K high boards, and they were folding 80% of the time - I was taking advantage of their wrong assumptions.

I don't see how 3 betting JQ in this exact situation would lose me lots of money. It's highly +EV, and I made a lot of money doing it.

At this point you're just attacking me with no good argument. You're just trying to win.
Therefore, I'll stop responding to you, since it really is pointless.

What's wrong with removing QQ/AK from our actual 3betting range?

I was 3betting AK close to 0% of the time back then.
No point in 3betting it, if that's the exact hand they put you on.

Also, why are you assuming that those opponents could tell the difference between 3% and 5% 3bet frequency? They were recreational players + would need a pretty big sample to be able to know my exact 3b frequency. And even if they did notice I was 3betting 5% of the time, they'd simply assume my range was TT+AQ.

Haha, dude, you do not need to add the QJ to your betting range to get the opponent to fold lol.

I said the strategy will lose you lots and unless you are playing against a mollusc I am right!! 3% 3betting range and you take advantage by getting them to fold too much! Ahahahaha. Dude, you're killing me.

I did say that this is kind of a pre-adjustment, the worst one ever concocted perhaps, but you're on the right lines.

Like I say. This is just a random bet with a random hand. There isn't much purpose and it is not sustainable. This is not going to work for long. For a pre-adjustment to be effective you have to replace the hands in your perceived range with unexpected hands. Good exploitative players are pre-adjusting during every decision they make. They dont just randomly spew out hands here and there.

Edit ---- I didn't see that you'd posted a reply.... Let me have a look at it....

Oh, so you did already know how to disguise the pre-adjustment... Obviously!!... And your plan was to replace QQ+ with QJ for the extra profit!!! Dunno why I didn't think of that???.......... I'm not laughing right now........ Promise........

Would you like to know my opinion about removing AK & QQ from a 3betting range ?

From a 3% 3betting range... Please mate. I really cant work it out. I must suck at Poker.