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Game without blinds.

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04-02-2022 , 02:46 AM

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

6max game with no blinds (but there is a button)

You're dealt AA UTG, what do you do.

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04-02-2022 , 02:56 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,105

Is there rake? lol

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04-02-2022 , 03:12 AM

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

No rake

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04-02-2022 , 04:09 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,105

equilibrium is to just jam or fold, 0ev, everyone should also fold (or call AA)

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04-02-2022 , 05:34 AM

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

If there's a flop, 5bb will be added to the pot. 100bb eff stacks.

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04-02-2022 , 06:28 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,105

doesn't matter if its after the flop, best strat is still to just wait til AA since there is no penalty for folding pre

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04-02-2022 , 08:05 AM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

If 5bb are added form the side not players stacks, that's not zero sum game. I think in that case everyone has strong incentives to see flop, so most likely every player should just check or maybe make really small bets.

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04-02-2022 , 08:32 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

dunno what equilibrium would be i guess? everyone limps and everyone checks it down should be +EV for everyone... sort of a dumb game mode to think about though imo

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04-02-2022 , 11:10 AM

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

How does limping work? Is it free or 1bb?

There would be a bunch of limping preflop either way and very little open raising. The postflop play would be normal.

You'd need a solver to figure out the exact optimal preflop ranges.

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Originally Posted by Brokenstars

everyone limps and everyone checks it down should be +EV for everyone... sort of a dumb game mode to think about though imo

The more logical game mode would be: "When the flop is seen, every player at the table has to put 1bb into the pot." This way the game would be zero sum and could actually become a thing at some point.

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04-02-2022 , 02:57 PM

#10

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

I was pretty high last night it seems, i still think AA would want to open preflop in this scenario tho, ip is incentivized to call some hands and you're going to have a massive potshare the majority of the time and dont want your equity split 6 ways.

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04-02-2022 , 04:46 PM

#11

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,265

You still pretty high tho. What is the alternative to opening?

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04-02-2022 , 04:58 PM

#12

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokenstars

dunno what equilibrium would be i guess? everyone limps and everyone checks it down should be +EV for everyone... sort of a dumb game mode to think about though imo

Yeah, but if you raise and get only one call that's better then sharing with 5 players, but you don't want to raise so big that everyone just folds.

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04-02-2022 , 05:28 PM

#13

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

You still pretty high tho. What is the alternative to opening?

checking i.e "passing", open folding is technically an option as well.

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04-03-2022 , 04:52 AM

#14

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagome

checking i.e "passing", open folding is technically an option as well.

Ah ok. Still, isn't it obvious we should open? At least "BB" (the player last to act pre) is incentivized to call very wide if we open say 3bb. So I guess the real question is: What is the correct opening size?

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04-03-2022 , 06:55 AM

#15

getmeoffcompletely

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,670

It's not necessarily true that you should open. Solvers have shown that when there is significant dead money you play your entire range as a limp. However in this game players have the option to check through and see a free flop. Whether or not top of range should open in this game depends on if preflop checks should be isolated. If preflop checks get isolated you most likely want to play your entire range as a check. If they don't get isolated you probably want to open yourself.

My pure intuition is that checks would get isolated and that would make you want to play your range as a check.

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04-05-2022 , 10:42 AM

#16

pjj

adept

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,020

I think this is just playing the same as if the game has a antes rather than blinds. I'd imagine preflop strategy would be relatively close to that for shortdeck.

With no blinds, a nash equilibrium strategy (which can't be beaten) is to fold every hand. There may be other equilibrium strategies, but they will not perform better (at best, exactly the same) as folding every single hand.

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04-15-2022 , 11:25 PM

#17

Kagome

banned

Join Date: Jan 2022 Posts: 372

i got high enough to remember the other half of my thought but pjj already figured it out, funny enough i was just looking at short deck stuff

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