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3betting pre vs raising flops 3betting pre vs raising flops

08-08-2017 , 01:24 PM
This is something I've wondered about a long time, but a discussion in LLSNL about ATo is why I am asking it now.

Suppose we have some (non-premium) hand XX. We are in position on BTN facing a preflop open. Ignoring folding for now.. (1) We may decide to 3bet pre and cbet flops to win. Or (2) we may decide to flat pre and raise (advantageous) flops to win.

In both cases, we are risking up to 4 bets total. In the first case, we always risk 3 bets, and usually risk 4 bets. In the second case, we always risk 2 bets, and occasionally risk 4 bets... (Of course, this says nothing about flopping huge and betting purely for value, which obviously is an important factor; and other players - blinds - will impact our decision too; finally, nothing is said about turn and river play).

In both cases, we are banking on the fact that villain will whiff a lot of flops, and it will be hard for V to call a bet (or raise) OOP on the flop.

My question is this... When and why is it clearly advantageous to take the aggressive action preflop vs postflop, and vice versa? How do stack sizes affect this?

I feel like a lot of people are very - perhaps overly - comfortable 3betting mediocre hands pre, but they hesitate too much in making moves post. Thoughts?

Last edited by pocketzeroes; 08-08-2017 at 01:36 PM.
3betting pre vs raising flops Quote
08-08-2017 , 01:35 PM
One problem with 3 betting pre-flop and making moves post is that you have already inflated the potsize to the point where additional betting is less and less a threat to villain. Also culturally people don't fold as often as they used to in 3bet pots since 3bet bluffing and c betting became incredibly common.
3betting pre vs raising flops Quote
08-08-2017 , 02:48 PM
I think most people's "fold to 3-bet" percentage is a little higher than their "fold to c-bet" percentage. Denying villain the chance to actually see a flop is somewhat advantageous, but overdoing it (by 3-betting too often) is risky, since it gives a competent villain the chance to 4-bet and make you give up your equity (and you've put even more money in the pot with a 3-bet than you would by calling pre).

If a particular villain has a specific stats-based leak, however, you can exploit it. e.g. If he c-bets too often, but folds to flop raises very often, then you can call pre, raise flop and print money. Similarly, if he check-folds to c-bets in 3-bet pots at a very high frequency, you can 3-bet pre and c-bet for the win.
3betting pre vs raising flops Quote
08-08-2017 , 08:26 PM
There is also the risk of getting squeezed and having to give up your investment fairly frequently.
3betting pre vs raising flops Quote

      
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