1) Say a 14/12 villain opens on the CO and we hold AQo on the BU. Is 3betting here a mistake?

2) Say we are in the BB and the same 14/12 opens from the button. What should our 3betting range consist of?

1) It depends what you're trying to achieve I guess. A 14/12 nit will probably fold to the majority of 3bets so if you're trying to avoid playing a pot postflop then you have a strong hand which can flop well if you're called, and you likely dominate his raising range even though he is a nit.

Also if there are chronic 3bettors in the blinds it might be better to 3bet yourself to avoid getting squeezed, in which case you will have given away the initiative in the hand.

If the blinds are weak/passive players on the other hand, flat calling can't be a mistake because it will keep in hands from the nit that you dominate (AJ/QJ etc) and if the blinds come in also you have a dominating hand and hopefully enough of a skill edge to play well postflop anyway.

Soo, I guess my analysis is that it depends on what type of players are yet to act preflop. Also it depends what kind of image you are trying to establish, I guess.


2) Probably QQ+/AK almost always, JJ and AQ sometimes and some other random junk from time to time I guess. I don't think there is going to be a definite answer to this since the fact they are a 14/12 nit doesn't tell you that much about how they react to 3bets. If they fold a lot, 3bet lighter, if they call 3bets more liberally, then tighten up your 3betting range.


That's my analysis anyway. But I am prob not that good so take it for what it's worth.

Agree with the previous poster. You can't really tell how nits react to 3bets, some will fold AQ or 99, some will call AJ or 66.

What I also wanted to add is that if you are on the button and either you or the SB is someone who is 3 betting pretty frequently, he might be opening only hands that he is not folding to 3 bets. Aggressive players on someone's left can turn a reg into a nit in that particular table.

I assume you mean against an unknown.

What stakes do you play?
What are the stack sizes?

1. Yes, flat to keep in his bad aces.
2. It depends (on stuff like his fold to 3bet%, his steal % from BTN etc.)

Assuming standardy stats of 25% steal from BTN (low but he plays 14/12) and 75% fold to 3bet (highish because he's a nit) and 100bb stacks etc.

I'd 3bet JJ+, AK for value, AQ sometimes (flatting is good to keep in his bad aces - same as before). 3bet bluff stuff we can't profitably call with like 86 because we can flop equity when called and great fold equity against the nit.

If there was chronic 3 bettors in the blinds, wouldnt we more likely be wanting to flat so we can 4-bet AQo for value to a squeeze and fold to a 5-bet.

If the blinds are weak passive I would more likely be 3-betting and not letting the blinds in, as AQo doesnt fair very well in a 4-way pot and would rather get it HU with CO raiser as I have positon and a Excellent TP type hand.Where Ill be way ahead or way behind.

If the original raiser folds to a lot of 3-bets Iam more likely to be polarizing my range to nuts/air and be flatting good post-flop hands ,if they call 3-bets more then you should be widening ur 3-bet range to value instead of tightening it up.








Why couldnt we profitably call with 86s,as it plays better post-flop.3-bet bluffing a SC OOP is horrible I think as we will be relying on a lot of fold equity due to being OOP and only flopping OESD and FD the majority of the time when we do flop something and only flopping monsters once in a while.I think we will be check-raising or shoving when we are behind and hoping to hit and relying on pure FE as we will be guessing a lot and have no SD value so were more relucant to bluff and spew.I would more likely 3-bet a SC IP as we can take down the pot a lot more ways IP.Why not be 3-betting something for value like KQ as we have blockers a great TP type hand, and villian will be opening up 100% of his range here where we can be ahead of a lot of it.Plus we can have a way ahead or way behind situation and be able to fold easily if shown aggression instead of relying on FE and a draw to hit.And we have some SD value to.



I dont think you could give a true range here without knowing stack sizes, people behind and tendencies on villian.

1.) I would more likely flat-call AQo as we have position and can float and take away the pot better if we dont hit.And be ahead of half of his range here w AQ.If blinds are frequent callers then Iam more likely to 3-bet.Really depends on stack-sizes in the blinds and the players though.A SSer to a full-stacker in the blinds could make the difference here a lot.

2.) You could prob have a 3-bet value range here as villian will be raising 100% of his range on the BTN. KQ+TT+AT+ I would put my range at and flat the rest.You could be getting villian to fold better hands to sometimes as hell be opening up here with 100% of his raising range.



Polarize 3-bets IP that you can either 5-bet or fold, and flat more.And Value 3-bet in the blinds when CO/BTN opens as we will have blockers and he will be opening wider, and we can fold to a 4-bet.

Just a few things with your post I disagree with...


4bet/folding has got to be terrible. Also backraising just looks so bluffy so if we did this we should probably expect villain to stack off with a much wider range than he usually would, so if anything 4bet/stacking-off would be a better play than 4bet/folding.

I don't think doing something with the intention of setting up a WA/WB situation for yourself is ever a good idea because it makes for difficult decisions. And that's what will happen if you 3bet AQo vs a nit, flop comes Axx, you cbet and get called (or even raised). Coz if he's decent he probably doesn't call 3bets with AJ OOP.

Also, sure AQo usually has less value multiway but in the case mentioned you have position, and the blinds are weak/passive. Emphasis on "weak"! If they flop a monster they'll likely let you know, and there is probably value to be had from even their 2nd pair type hands and junky aces. I would much prefer to play a multiway pot IP with AQo against a nit and 2 passive fish than I would against a nit and 2 aggressive regs.

Pretty sure you should be more willing to flat call with a SC IP than 3bet it because it's a hand with very little preflop value and a lot of postflop value (and also plays better multiway, so even less reason to 3bet IP and force out other callers). Also, SCs do not play well OOP, so if anything calling if worse than folding. Obviously if you do 3bet 86s it will be essentially a light 3bet, but if you are called you've increased the SPR preflop so it will make your decisions easier postflop and somewhat negate your positional disadvantage. The positional advantage is smaller in larger pots, which is what you want for hands that play much worse OOP than IP.

Besides that I agree 3betting KQ is good sometimes but mainly versus players who call a lot of 3bets, so probably not so much versus a nit (such as the 14/12 mentioned in the OP), since even if they do call a lot of 3bets their opening range is going to be much tighter in the first place so we have less room for a wider value 3bet range.


But again, I am still learning so if anything I've said is obviously wrong I stand ready to be corrected.

We need to know more that VPIP and PFR.

Stl% from relative position and fold to 3b are pretty important too , as well as who is in the blinds.

another thing to consider is that you have to put him on a wider range than 12% - thats overall, his opening range from the cut is larger.

If there is a chronic 3-bettor in the blinds wouldn't that make just calling preflop good? You get more information from the original raisers range and can play perfectly against it and if someone is a chronic squeezer AQ, even offsuit, is ahead of his range so you can just shove and either win a nice pot or flip for stacks.

i think three betting the AQ on the button is a mistake most times. obviously its good to vary your play but 80% i'm probably just flatting pf. not just vs the nit but vs most players in general. only time i would three bet is if i knew i was doing it for value ie vs a massive fish. playing a pot in position with a hand that is often dominating = +EV.

as for the second situation, i think this depends completely on how comfortable you are proceeding in three bet pots from oop. you are going to miss the flop huge percentage of the time and if you start three betting KQss, AQ, AK AJ etc type hands, you are going to find yourself in a lot of high difficulty/high variance spots. so it just depends how comfortable you are getting into those situations.

This is very situational.

My table image and the stack sizes are important factors.

First, I'm folding or raising, not calling. If I raise it will be for 3.5 to 4 times the raise of the nit. If he folds, profit.

If he doesn't fold, I'm prepared to fold to aggression on the flop.

If the flop comes with an Ace, I fold to a bet. He has Aces or AK. I'm willing to throw away my half of a split pot before putting anymore money into the pot.

If Villain checks an Ace flop to me, I'll take one more shot at the pot with a 2/3 Pot bet. This will give him a chance to lay down KK, QQ or JJ. If he folds, profit. If he calls, I reevaluate on the turn.

If the flop comes Q high, I'm raising a bet or betting a check.

I'm folding or checking any King flops and calling or betting any J high flops.

Boards with no face cards I'll fold or bet.

That's the standard game plan with no reads. And it's only a maybe, if all the stars align and I actually put in the raise.

Again, it depends.

terrible advice imo

1.) Almost definitely. But if the villain opens a lot from the CO (say 27% would probably be a lot for a 14/12) and calls a ton of 3bets even OOP then it could be good. I doubt it happens much. I'd just call here.


2.) How much does this player raise the button? Is he positionally aware? This depends.

lol u nit

def just call versus nit. if a blind raises we 4bet maybe 60-70% and call IP the rest of the time. we stop and think if theres a 5bet though ~80% of the time i'll be all in having already around 40% of our stack in

Yeah, I guess that's probably good too. There are probably merits to either play in different situations since the original question was very vague. I just suck at playing in 3bet pots when I'm not the aggressor so that's probably why my advice was biased towards avoiding this situation.



Also Data Architect your advice sucks. LOLWTF

I think back-raising here looks strong and we set it up that way, what range would you give a chronic 3-bettor for 5-bet shoving??? prob be AJ+ 99+.We are a little behind to that range and mostly flipping for stax so Iam folding.I dont think hes 5-bet shoving any lighter than this.

This is a chronic 3-bettors dream ,a raise then a call....hes licking his chops to 3-bet here with the lightest of his 3-bet squeeze range.Hes going to b folding a lot of his hands,a lot of pp we are flipping with also to a 4-bet.

AQo always has less value multi-way big-time.Iam only 3-betting if there is calling fish in the blinds if not Iam flatting.And setting up a WA/WB HU situation is way better then setting up a situation by calling and having no clue at all where your at in a 4-way pot w a TP type hand and just stabbing.Plus if I 3-bet here I can make the nit fold a lot of his PP and take away the pot with a c-bet.If I get called on a c-bet I can just shut-down or if I get shoved on I can just fold.His range is still pretty wide here prob 88+ ATs+KJs+ and Iam only realy dominated by AK-QQ+ hes a 14/12 nit not a 8/5.Sometimes the fish will even call this 3-bet and the nit will just fold then I got a HU pot with a fish.

And Iam more willing to flat a SC IP 100% I was just saying I would rather 3-bet it as a bluff IP then OOP if that was the case(which I never do).If were 3-betting 86s OOP why arent we 3-betting 82s????or 7-3s??? its got the same value pre-flop doesnt it??Iam flatting here for value post-flop, and wanting to flop big and stack the nit.Plus I can get away easier if I dont flop big OOP.As if I 3-bet it Iam more obligated to bluff and be spewy.

We have enough equity to stack off against a range of 99/AJ+ with AQo if we 4bet, most likely even against TT/AQ+ with fold equity thrown in. 4bet/folding a hand like AQo in this situation is just terrible.

Also, I think you're overestimating how many hands are in the top 12% a little, if he is a positionally aware nit then I guess we can assume his CO range is a little wider but even so I think he needs to be calling close to 50% of 3bets for ATs+ and probably even KJs to be in his range. AQo is itself only in the top 6.5% of hands. Of course it's perfectly possible that this would be the case sometimes since no details are given in the OP, but probably somewhat unlikely. FWIW the opening range of an 8/5 nit consists of pretty much only QQ+/AQ+/KQ. Just some of what can be found from messing around with PokerStove for a minute.

As for the low suited connector issue, 86s obviously has the advantage over 82s and 73s (which are barely even connectors at all) in that it can flop a few more straight draws as well as flush draws so has a little more preflop and postflop value, although I expect you knew that. The problem with just calling with low gapped suited connectors OOP is that you've pretty much reduced yourself to playing fit-or-fold postflop - when they flop anything it's almost always going to be a draw and for a start playing draws OOP with no initiative sucks because it's much harder to control the potsize. The few times you do luck out and flop an absolute monster you aren't always going to be able to get stacks in, especially OOP, and especially versus a nit. The return on your investment with flatting hands like these OOP is just not going to cover the cost of paying to see a flop and paying to draw when you miss, which is going to be almost all the time.

Generally flatting with junky SCs OOP is a losing play. I can't remember where it was (I think probably somewhere in the archives, probably linked in some sticky in the micros PL/NL strat forum) but there was some really good post which went into a lot of depth concerning the maths behind suited connectors, how often they hit flops, and what kind of odds you need to call with them, which I recommend looking for if you're interested. FWIW pretty much the same argument applies to setmining with small pocket pairs from the blinds as I recall.

K agree that AQo is bad 4-bet folding,I would mostly be 4-betting for value because chronic 3-bettors range is so wide.A 4-bet shove would be better.

As for the connector issue. 86s has the exact same value a 73s 85s pre-flop.We are raising 86s as a bluff trying to fold out better hands.We really only have FE here and we can do this with a lot of hands.


We only 3-bet connectors because they can flop us equity(like a fail-safe when we get called.)The only way we can win this hand is either semi-bluffing or bluffing unless we flop the balls which is rare.So were are more of less going to be c-betting this flop if we flop equity or not,because we are representing a stronger hand because we 3-bet pre-flop.So our hand continues to be a bluff/semi-bluff,if we c-bet and take down the pot great we could have done this with ATC 73s 96s as our hand is a bluff and were trying to fold out better and we succeded.

What if we flop a small equity piece and turn more equity???Then our only move is to shove.Again relying on FE and a bluff.But this move is way better as our FE probably sky-rockets and we have outs as this is the benefit of connectors.But we rely on FE more than anything.So were more on the verge of getting stacks in with 86s by 3-betting pre-flop and spewing off chips when we flop pot equity by bluffing or semi-bluffing.

Iam never flatting a small PP OOP unless its maybe from a UTG raiser.As I will flop F-all except a rarely made set and when I dont I will only have 2 outs at best.Prob wont get a stack anyways.

I just think flatting is cheaper,you can represent more hands when bluffing/semi-bluffing and have a lot more pot control and not be as spewy.

But all in all maybe the best play would be to just FOLD this crappy hand, unless multi-way and pick a better hand to 3-bet bluff.

I see AQ vs nit IP as a game of chicken. We're telling one another with the bets we stuffed in on the flop that there are a few possible scenarios, and we will have to identify which one before the end of the betting rounds.

SCENARIO 1: One of us has a strong ace and the other has a pocket pair.

SCENARIO 2: We both have strong aces and one of ours is likely stronger--though we may have a tie.

SCEANRIO 3: We both have pocket pairs, and the higher one or the one with trips is going to win.

My guidelines above are going to represent one of these scenarios. I will need to bet to represent the best scenario for the flop.

The above doesn't try to be the best way to play a strong ace against a premium hand; it's a strategy for playing a TAG from the button with AQ. I approached it from a game strategy perspective, not a probability equation.

I accept the criticism, but maintain that under the correct conditions, this is a strong, profitable strategy.

(1) What do I have?
(2) What does he have?
(2) What does he think I have?
(3) What does he think I think he thinks I have?

14/10 isn't always AA. I'm going to pressure and punish the TAG for the times he calls my 3-Bet without it.

I will be folding the flop when ahead sometimes, but when I pickup Aces or hit trips on a flop and 3-Bet him next time, he may pay me off when way behind.

I'll watch this thread to see what the better solution is.

this is in reference to the ATC/86 scenario right?

Um, no, it doesn't. 86s is almost a 60:40 favourite over 85s, and almost a 65:35 favourite over 73s.

Of course it's true that we are mainly hoping to take the pot down preflop, and that most of the time it's better just to fold a hand like this, but the advantage 86s has over ATC is that it can flop deceptive straight/flush draws once in a while, and if we've 3bet preflop we need less equity to stack off profitably postflop. Again, the positional disadvantage is negated by having a higher SPR. Also semi-bluffing a strong draw in a 3bet pot does not = spewing if you've flopped enough equity to stack off, and 3betting preflop doesn't mean we have to cbet every flop. Higher SPR = more +EV to stack off with draws. Just because you don't have a made hand doesn't mean fold equity is all you've got.