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typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here?

11-25-2009 , 09:16 PM
I'm not looking to find out the best move in this position, I'd like to know what you think is the best move in this position. I'd like as many different people as possible to answer, regardless of your strength. Take as much or as little time as you like to evaluate the position. I'll explain what this is about later. Please put your answer in spoilers by using the [spoil] and [/spoil] tags.

typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-25-2009 , 09:39 PM
Spoiler:
Re6

Last edited by swingdoc; 11-25-2009 at 09:53 PM. Reason: changed my mind - agbain
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-25-2009 , 11:03 PM
Spoiler:
assuming it's black to move- i like the general plan of Re6- Re8 and Kh7-g6-f5.

BUT- first move for me is ...a6- locking the pawn structure on the queenside and keeping his bishop bad- If I don't play a6 immediately he could make a very disruptive pawn sac with a6! himself- then Ra1 etc with counterplay- our advantage is on the kingside so locking up the other side is my first move. Then I place my pieces on their ideal squares mentioned previously and start pushing my kingside pawn majority.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-25-2009 , 11:06 PM
Spoiler:

I'm interested in whether 1...f5 can be played.

Can Black force this? 2. Re2 Ne3+ 3. Bxe3 Rxe5 4. Rde1 Rxe3. 5. Rxe3 fxe3 6. Rxe3 Kf7

If it is forced, is the resulting position better? Can Black force the remaining rooks off the board and get into a winning king and pawn endgame?


Spoiler:

1...Rad1 and 1...Re6 are obvious candidate moves.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 12:19 AM
Spoiler:
Ne3+. Am I supposed to give analysis?
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 01:06 AM
Spoiler:
...a6
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 01:11 AM
Spoiler:
At first I couldn't find anything wrong with 1. ...Re6 followed by ...Rae8, Kh7-g6-f5, etc., but another poster pointed out the strong reply 2. a6! so now I want to play 1. ...a6, and then go ahead with the aforementioned plan. I was somewhat worried about White destroying my majority with h4/g3 etc., but that idea doesn't seem to bear fruit, so I'm not too worried about it.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 03:18 AM
Spoiler:
a6 locks up the position, re6 wins the e-pawn?
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 04:53 AM
Spoiler:
took ~20 seconds on this. Looks like if black can stabilize with f5, a6 and kf7-e6 he is winning. Not sure if a6 is strictly necessary but I don't see White going anywhere fast. So 1.-f5 2.rook moves a6
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 04:55 AM
Spoiler:
1.. a6 lock that up and then Re6/Rae8 and win e-pawn and game.

..f5 at an early point is interesting too, followed by kf7-e6
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 06:03 AM
Spoiler:


I wrote this and then read other replies - no one seems to think my minority attack plan is a concern, so I'm probably fulla beans but as RoundTower knows from earlier, I get creative sometimes -- I don't think my attack for white is as solid as I would like it to be - but if I were white it's still what I would do since I can't save that stupid e pawn

--------

Well, this is interesting in that I'm PRESUMING it's black to play, but I don't know do I - I was all over and no way I'd be able to do this with 4 min to go -

for some reason I'm thinking more of white then black, but what white does will make a difference so ... this came up recently somewhere (I think on a Heisman Novice Nook) where it's better to evaulate positions without white/black to move for a more honest assessment - and it's easy to presume black since we're looking from his POV, but I don't know that and I'll assess whole position and read answers afterwards
I got two attack plans - one for white and one for black

1. h4 - bust up the pawn chain in front of the king since technically, I'm in a losing position anyways as white - I think the h pawn and the bishop (along with the rook can obliterate the pawn chain on the kingside with a minority attack thereby leaving counterplay vs the king - technically, since we can't save the e pawn anyways, that might be the best shot. He can play my black followup plan f6 here but then Rde1 makes a exf pawn capture viable and leaves an open white rook in the e file - long shot but it's what I got for white - if the Chain shortens to the f/g file, then a rook should be able to take down the g pawn and the bishop the f pawn - (hard to explain without an analysis board)

as black, I'd play Re8 then f6 to counteract this plan and then bring all forces to bear on the e pawn - now, there's another caveat which is right now, the white king and second f pawn can join the attack whereas the black king can't because the d4 square is the only one available - UNLESS a pawn gets to g4, so let's try to prevent that

so as white I'd play h4 for counterplay and as black I'd play Re6 first - and if he plays h4, I'd play f6 - once Re1 comes into play, I'll need to double rooks on that file asap and if I start with 1. f6, a doubled rook leave me susceptible to losing the file after exf6 whereas right now, the rook is hanging before they're doubled up

I dunno man - I didn't see anything on queenside worth fighting for - just reduction of material taking black into a superior endgame

SO white to move, I play 1. h4
black to move, I play Re6 with the idea of playing f6 if 2. h4, and Rae8 if Rde1 and then f6 -

POST EDIT after reading responses - I thought I couldn't see a way to open up queenside with the b pawn but didn't realize the a pawn could cause so much trouble - so I suppose yes, locking with a6 is good too - but personally, I am more concerned about the h4 attack then a6 - I don't want to play it out (just looking for visual analysis here live on the board) but I'm struggling to see a white passed pawn on queenside that can't be removed quickly by a rook on e6 or a knight - so I'm sticking with my original plan to be more concerned on the h file and damn to popular opinion With white to move it might be possible to create counterplay on either end however I don't see a good way save white - more like a dying gasp - LOL

Last edited by whiskeytown; 11-26-2009 at 06:28 AM.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 06:39 AM
Spoiler:
*Grunch after 2 minutes looking:

We are a pawn up, have a very well placed knight. White's bishop is probably worse here. I don't see any immediate tactical ideas. Looking at the structure, it could have been a Slav with NxBf5 exf5.
White has some b5-ideas or maybe even a6 that undermine our knight, so I would like to play a6 myself. Then maybe follow up with Re6 and Rae8 and just sit on the e5-pawn. White will probably have to play Re1 and Kd3 to cover e5, while we can for example activate our king to f5 or whatever. It' probably not winning but pleasantly to play for Black. Once I arrive at this position, I am going to think about the next steps... White has basically no counterplay, I don't see any h4 or g3 ideas working.

Last edited by Ajezz; 11-26-2009 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Forgot spoilers.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 10:29 AM
Spoiler:

I'd be quite happy if my late middlegame positions typically looked like this!

I have not analyzed too much but I like the simple f5 planning to follow it up with a6, king to g6, double the rooks on the e file and expect a resignation.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 11:52 AM
Spoiler:
I play 1...a6 with the plan Re6, Rae8, Kg7 (-g6), f6 to exchange all the rooks and then win easily.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 12:21 PM
Spoiler:
does nf6 ng4 straight up win a pawn?
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyasaxa
Spoiler:
does nf6 ng4 straight up win a pawn?
Spoiler:
just IBA* but doesn't Nf6 Re2 Ng4 h3 Ne5 Rde1 f6 Bc3 win it back?

*Instant B.S. analysis

Edit: I guess black has Re7 Be5 Rae8 at the end of that.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 01:28 PM
Spoiler:

1...Nf6 was my first candidate move (with the idea of ...Ng4) and did not analyze this deeply but noticed that 2. Re2 Ng4 3. h3 allows 3...Rxe5; I also looked at 1...Ne3+ 2. Bxe3 f5 briefly but couldn't find anything and 1...Re6 2. Rde1 Rae8 which also looks good for Black. I couldn't decide between these but I'd guess 1...Nf6 without spending more than a few minutes.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 01:48 PM
Spoiler:
1... Nf6 forcing Rf2 or Rf1 then Nd7 and continue attacking the e-pawn although I don't see a forced win of material, but that's how I'd play it.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 07:58 PM
The whole thread is in spoilers.

It's time to stop this policy.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 08:39 PM
well, it helps to get a plan without reading what everyone else is thinking - now I want to know what RT's point was
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 10:49 PM
I think there are more than one route to Rome here.

1-Re6! (I think this first is more precise than 1-a6 because 2.a6 is not good here 2-bxa6 (2-b5 or b6 are also good.) 3.Ra1 f6 4.Rxa6 Nc7 and Rxe5.) followed by the plan already mentioned Rae8 and Kh7-g6-f5 looks safest.

1-f5 is not that clear 2.Re2 Ne3+ 3.Bxe3 Rxe5 4.a6 bxa6 5.Rd6

1-Nf6 migth be a serious option 2.Ree1 (2.Re2 is similar.) Ng4 3.Bc3 (On 3.h3 simply Nxe5 4.Bc3 Nc4 and with two pawns up black must be winning.) and now black can play Re6, Nxh2 or win the exchange with Ne3+
White will get some counterplay with the active rook on the d-file but it cant possibly be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
"but doesn't Nf6 Re2 Ng4 h3 Ne5 Rde1 f6 Bc3 win it back?"
Indeed, but white is dead lost in the pawn endgame after 5-Kf7 6.Bxe5 Rxe5 7.Rxe5 fxe5 8.Rxe5 Re8

Last edited by Paymenoworlater; 11-26-2009 at 11:01 PM.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-26-2009 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
The whole thread is in spoilers.

It's time to stop this policy.
I don't know if this means I'm not allow to talk in spoilers here or not. But, since the last post already didn't use spoilers, I'll give my answer out in the open: 1...f5.

I'll explain myself only after reading this thread, to make sure I don't end up repeating things that were already said. But I'll have to read it later.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-27-2009 , 12:56 AM
Is White in some kind of hurry? He has an excellent knight vs a horrific bishop, an extra pawn, and a weak white e5 pawn that isn't going anywhere. Of course there will be multiple ways that work.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-27-2009 , 02:40 AM
Sadly mine seems to be a draw with Rxf4 exchange sac. Oops.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote
11-27-2009 , 04:29 AM
My Rybka likes Re6 by like a .05th of a pawn.
typical late middlegame pos - what would you play here? Quote

      
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