Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Correspondence Analysis Experiment

06-09-2010 , 01:43 PM
Spoiler:

I think Black is fine here. Black can defend the pawn on d5 with Bb7 and then drive the Bishop back with a6 and b5. Then the Rook can go to e8 and the White queen might be in trouble because of Bf8. The Black Knight has c4.

I don't see why you are so pessimistic about your position. One characteristic of almost all strong players is that they tend to overestimate their position rather than underestimate. A positive attitude will take you a long way.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-09-2010 , 03:28 PM
Spoiler:
I don't like exd4. e4 looks fine. fxe4 Nxe4 Nxe4 dxe4 and black is better.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-09-2010 , 04:57 PM
Spoiler:
yes exd4 must be bad. a6 (and b5 if ba4) followed by nc6 looks pretty good for black as well
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-09-2010 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Douglas
Spoiler:

I think Black is fine here. Black can defend the pawn on d5 with Bb7 and then drive the Bishop back with a6 and b5. Then the Rook can go to e8 and the White queen might be in trouble because of Bf8. The Black Knight has c4.

I don't see why you are so pessimistic about your position. One characteristic of almost all strong players is that they tend to overestimate their position rather than underestimate. A positive attitude will take you a long way.
Spoiler:
I must be very strong because i do this all the time
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-09-2010 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyasaxa
Spoiler:
I must be very strong because i do this all the time
Spoiler:
yes

Spoiler:
BJJ must be pretty mind****ed trying to imagine what these boxes contain
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-09-2010 , 07:20 PM
Spoiler:
exd4 is not good since it opens a diagonal for c1 bishop. Besides e4 there is also Qc7 possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingbill
Spoiler:
yes exd4 must be bad. a6 (and b5 if ba4) followed by nc6 looks pretty good for black as well
White has dxe5 instead of Ba4.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-13-2010 , 01:34 PM
Updates pls!
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-14-2010 , 02:35 AM
Went on vacation. Got back last night. He had played 13. Nxd4 like I expected, and since my time was going to expire overnight, but I was too tired to analyze much at the time, I played 13. ... Bd7 like I had planned to, but without really doing any additional analysis. My idea is relatively vague, but I feel like he has all the initiative, and I want to trade off my undeveloped bishop for his well-placed bishop, and open up the e8 square for my rook. I'm hoping I didn't miss anything obvious, in playing this move without looking hard at it, but it seems pretty safe and logical.

Moves so far:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bd3 g6 7. Nge2 Bg7 8. O-O O-O 9. f3 e5 10. Qb3 b6 11. Bb5 Na5 12. Qb4 exd4 13. Nxd4 Bd7

Current Position (I just found the "flip position" button on the diagram generator, lol):
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-14-2010 , 03:31 AM
Spoiler:
I'd assess this pretty close to equal. Obviously d5 is weak but the c1-bishop+e3-pawn combination isn't that great either (and the queen looks silly on b4). Guess an idea for white could be Bd2-Rad1-Bc1 if it isn't too slow
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-15-2010 , 02:47 PM
Spoiler:
seems like you should be okay here, but you need to make sure you don't drift into trading pieces and just losing your d5 pawn. Nc4 at some point to pressure the dark squares is going to be a critical idea/threat.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-15-2010 , 04:13 PM
14. b3 is interesting. It takes away c4 as a potential outpost for my knight, and also maybe (?) sets up Ba3 doubling the bishop and queen along the diagonal (though that doesn't look like a real threat to me). If I still want to trade the bishops off, here, I can. It would leave him with a very strong knight presence on the queenside, but I think I would be able to start targeting the long black diagonals again. Assuming he retakes with one of the knights, any move I make with my f6 knight would pin his remaining knight to the rook. Meanwhile I have Re8 to start bringing more pressure onto e6 (though Nc4 would have helped a lot with that plan, so b3 is annoying, and preventing that looks like precisely why he played it.) If I'm not going to trade bishops, I could also try Re8 now, but I don't see what that gains. His bishop is better than mine, and if I ever get an attack going it will probably be based on the dark squares, not the light ones. The one other move I considered here was Rc8 to try to pressure the c3 knight, but any pressure looks very superficial so I passed on that idea. I'm going to go ahead with the trade.

Moves so far:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bd3 g6 7. Nge2 Bg7 8. O-O O-O 9. f3 e5 10. Qb3 b6 11. Bb5 Na5 12. Qb4 exd4 13. Nxd4 Bd7 14. b3 Bxb5

Current position (white to move):
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-15-2010 , 04:32 PM
Spoiler:
Re8 woulda been much better IMO.. Not only you create problems for his development but also you suddenly have interesting Bf8 ideas as his queen doesn't have many squares. If he wants to take on d7 thats fine, you will develop your queen and connect the rooks. Remember - relieving pressure when you can keep it on is a sign of a weaker player try to not be that guy!
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-15-2010 , 11:02 PM
Spoiler:
I would just like to clarify: it's not that relieving tension is inherently bad, it's that moves which relieve tension tend to give up squares.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-16-2010 , 04:23 PM
15. Qxb5

I expected him to capture with one of the knights, but instead he brought the queen up. This leaves his c3 knight undefended, but puts a little pressure on d5. Nothing looks good here other than putting a rook on an open file with Re8 or Rc8. Re8 is what I've been wanting to set up, but it isn't immediately critical. I'm leaning more toward Rc8 to pressure the undefended knight. Either he has to defend it with the queen (pulling pressure off of d5), defend it with the bishop (leaving e3 vulnerable), or retreat the knight to a4/e2, neither of which threatens me and both of which make the remaining knight on the diagonal pinnable if I can create a good square to move my f6 knight to.

Other than the rook moves, I don't see anything else useful, and my a knight isn't threatened by b4 because then Nc4 is a good outpost. 15. ... Rc8 it is.

Moves so far:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bd3 g6 7. Nge2 Bg7 8. O-O O-O 9. f3 e5 10. Qb3 b6 11. Bb5 Na5 12. Qb4 exd4 13. Nxd4 Bd7 14. b3 Bxb5 15. Qxb5 Rc8

Current Position (white to move):
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 01:36 PM
Spoiler:
be2 seems like a pretty standard reply for white and allows him to finally develop the bishop. Probably better than bb2 because e3 is so weak. Re8 is probably how I'd reply for black, with the possibility of bg6. What are people's thoughts on the knight on a5? Is it worth re-routing it or does it take too long?
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 02:24 PM
So after running the clock down from 3 days to 33 hours, my opponent then entered "vacation mode", pausing this (and all his other) games. I have no idea how long this will slow things down, but I haven't abandoned this thread, there's just nothing new to report.

I don't know why the game I picked for this thread had to turn out to be the slowest of all the games I've played so far, but oh well.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 02:26 PM
Just start another thread with another game

I've enjoyed this so far.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaz
Just start another thread with another game

I've enjoyed this so far.
+1
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaz
Just start another thread with another game

I've enjoyed this so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
+1
Well okay then, why not! I'll put in a game request now, and start up a new thread as soon as it gets accepted. I will *also* be continuing this thread when my opponent eventually starts playing again though. His vacation time can't last forever!
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-20-2010 , 05:56 PM
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaz
Spoiler:
What are people's thoughts on the knight on a5?
Should be traded for Nd4. So if white plays Bd2 (Bb2 looks not so good since e3 pawn wouldn't be protected) then Qd6 with the idea of Nc6.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-22-2010 , 11:25 PM
He's back. 16. Bd2

I don't know exactly why I thought that "defend it with the bishop (leaving e3 vulnerable)" was automatic, I had Bb2 in my mind, but of course there's also Bd2. I have an interesting tactical idea here, that I have to look closer at. I don't feel too bad about letting him twist in the wind a little, so I'm going to post the idea WITHOUT making the move, and let you guys discuss its brilliance/idiocy as the case may be.

I'm looking at 16. ... Qe7, threatening Rxc3 (and if Bxc3 then Qxe3+!). At first glance it leaves my d-pawn underdefended, but my idea is that if 17. Nxd5 Nxd5 18. Qxd5 Rc5 19. Qe4 (anything else loses the queen) Qxe4 20. fxe4 Nc6 then his knight is pinned to his rook and can't move, while I threaten Nxd4 exd4 Bxd4+ to win back the pawn with initiative (and a potential fork on his rook). He can't get an extra defender onto the knight, therefore he has to move the rook on move 21, and after 21. ... Nxd4 22. exd4 Bxd4+ material is back even, and I've created an isolated pawn that might give me good endgame chances.

I'm pretty sure that after 17. Nxd5 the line would basically be forced. I'm not 100% sure the resulting endgame is *actually* good for me yet, though it looks nice at first glance. I also haven't looked at what other options he has on move 17 if he doesn't jump at the "free" pawn. I'm going to sit on this position for a while, analyze the endgame, analyze move 17, and make sure I'm not missing anything on the combo. Also, there might be a better continuation for me in there (I'm not sure 19. ... Qxe4 is my best try there yet either)

In the meantime, it's still my turn, and here's the position. You guys are welcome to discuss my ideas for a little while, I'll probably not decide on whether I'm trying it until tomorrow.

Moves so far:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bd3 g6 7. Nge2 Bg7 8. O-O O-O 9. f3 e5 10. Qb3 b6 11. Bb5 Na5 12. Qb4 exd4 13. Nxd4 Bd7 14. b3 Bxb5 15. Qxb5 Rc8 16. Bd2

Current position (black to move):
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-23-2010 , 04:01 AM
Spoiler:
The line you have given doesn't work as after 20.. Nc6 white can just play Nxc6 and after Bxa1 play Ne7+ to save the knight and then take your bishop. I sort of like the idea of playing Nb7-Nc5-Ne6, rather than playing Qd6-Nc6. Q is very vulnerable on d6 and even after simple Nce2 black has problems.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-23-2010 , 06:29 AM
Spoiler:
If 16... Qe7 17. Nxd5 Nxd5 18. Qxd5, I think 18... Rfd8 is stronger than ...Rc5. After 19. Qe4, black can play ...Qxe4 20. fxe4 Rxd4 21. exd4 Bxd4+ 22. Kh1 Bxa1 23. Rxa1 with material equality. White's structure is worse then (isolated e4-pawn), but he has a nice bishop. I think white is the only side with winning chances. Still, it is better than 18... Rc5, for the reason pointed out by YKW.

After 19. Qb5, the same trick (...Rxd4 and ..Bxd4+) works to regain the pawn, but now the queens remain on. I'm not sure what to think of the resulting position yet, but it has lots of play.

So white can in fact choose between a slightly better ending or an unclear position after 16...Qe7. I would search on for a better move.

Last edited by Jolle; 06-23-2010 at 06:38 AM.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-24-2010 , 02:36 PM
I haven't found a way to improve my side of the sequence, and looking closer at that endgame, I'm not seeing any reason to suspect it's theoretically won for me. It doesn't look lost either though, and as black against an opponent now rated 300 points higher than me, from a position that I think is currently advantageous, I'm content to play for an even endgame, particularly when it's my opponent who walks a razor's edge to get there, not me. That is IF he responds to Qe7 with Nxd5 though. If instead he responds with Re1, then my threat is blunted immediately, and my d5 pawn actually is hanging. In that case, though, I can always play Qd7, offering the trade, and I think things look all right. Whether he trades, or retreats the queen, the pressure I'm feeling is alleviated.

As for other ideas, I looked at 16. ... Rc5 17. Qxx Qe7, but 18. Re1 still takes away anything I really have threatening, and now Na4 gets a little uncomfortable for me.

I think I'm going to go with Qe7 now. If he takes the d-pawn I feel good about my line to play for an even endgame (and if he slips up getting there, even better). If he defends e6, I'll play Qd7 next.

Moves so far:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. e3 Nc6 6. Bd3 g6 7. Nge2 Bg7 8. O-O O-O 9. f3 e5 10. Qb3 b6 11. Bb5 Na5 12. Qb4 exd4 13. Nxd4 Bd7 14. b3 Bxb5 15. Qxb5 Rc8 16. Bd2 Qe7

Current Position:
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote
06-24-2010 , 04:32 PM
Spoiler:

There is something illogical about your thinking: if he goes Re1, I'll play Qd7. But you could play Qd7 right away and get the same position a tempo up.

I'm not sure Qd7 is something you want to aim for anyway, but if you're going to play it, then it's better to do it immediately. After Qe7 Re1, there are other moves worth considering like Qb7, Qc5, Rd8, Qe5. Not really sure what's going on in this position. Maybe a slight edge for White, but nothing too serious.
Correspondence Analysis Experiment Quote

      
m